#130 Nic Hayes – Discerning Media Consumption

Take a deep dive into the current world of media with Nic Hayes, Founder and Managing Director of Media Stable.

Nic shares how he spotted an opportunity in the changing media landscape to create Media Stable, which actively links experts and their views with media outlets to produce informed and trusted content.

Through this conversation Nic provides an insightful commentary of the full range of media platforms, from traditional forms of print, TV and Radio through to online and social media, as well as the changes in our consumer behaviour. Interestingly Nic explains how, through a growing erosion of trust in social media content, there is the potential for people to return to the more traditional forms of media once they gain more awareness of the often-questionable credibility and decide to become more discerning media consumers.

We also spend time discussing the impact of content that is aimed at giving people what they WANT versus giving people what they NEED, as well as the importance of real human relationships and interaction.

Nic is a wonderfully engaging as well as knowledgeable man, which makes this conversations both entertaining and thought provoking, and leaves the listener with the challenge to consider a more discerning consumption of media in day to day life.

 

Read Full Transcript

Bryn 

Take a deep dive into the current world of media with Nick Hayes, Founder and Managing Director of media stable. Nick shares how he spotted an opportunity in the changing media landscape to create media stable, which actively linked experts and their views with media outlets to produce informed and trusted content. Through this conversation, Nick provides an insightful commentary on the full range of media platforms from traditional forms of print, TV and radio, through to online and social media, as well as the changes in our consumer behaviours. Interestingly, Nick explains how through a growing erosion of trust in social media content, there is the potential for people to return to the more traditional forms of media. Once they gain more awareness of the often questionable credibility and decide to become more discerning media consumers. We also spend time discussing the impact of content that is a Giving people what they want, versus what they need, as well as the importance of real human relationships and interaction. Nick is a wonderfully engaging, as well as knowledgeable man, which makes this conversation both entertaining, and thought provoking, and leaves the listener with the challenge to consider a more discerning consumption of media the day to day life. So enjoy, Nick. Hello, and welcome back to W a rail. I’m your host, Bryn Edwards media in all its forms and machinations of where we’re going today with my guest, Kate, Nick, welcome to the show.

 

Nic Hayes 

Can I brain and can I just say I know this is an audio forum, but I love the fact you’re wearing your red wife’s coat right now in the fact that you know and all the photos I’ve seen there is the red white hat that you wear it during these interviews. Yes, this is very impressive.

 

Bryn 

Yeah, it’s it’s it’s it’s part of the state

 

Bryn 

now.

 

Bryn 

So I did I studied NLP a long time. Guys part of this day I put it on. And now I’m Britain podcast into here.

 

Nic Hayes 

I love it. I love it. It’s only it’s only an unfortunate This is a West Australian podcast and that the fact that the weather doesn’t allow us to wear that we’re waistcoat outside too much. You know, you should be a Victorian podcast or a European podcast. Yeah.

 

Bryn 

Well, this one’s actually it was present from a mother or a few years ago. And you’ll notice back in England, and this is quite thick, it says wall and one. I really feel like I need to get a tailor on the podcast. So I can have like a thinner,

 

Nic Hayes 

you know, one summer version. Yeah. You know what a good time is. I do know, we’ve got a few experts that are in the space that do talk this so we might have to make the connection.

 

Bryn 

Yes. Let’s do that. Awesome. So one of the first things I like to talk to my guests about because it’s called wi rail is how they came to be in Western Australia. And so you moved here over 20 odd years ago. Yep. From the Albin for a job. Is it home now?

 

Nic Hayes 

It’s definitely high now. I’ve got I’ve got two children that are now West Australians I got, I got boys that back to the west coast eagles and follow the scorches. Right now I’m on the North Melbourne supporter, I followed the Victorian bush ranges. So I’ve got I have climbed West Australia as home now purely for the fact that I did marry a W a girl. Like as I said, My boys are both West Australian, but I’ve been here long enough to feel that Western Australia is part of me it’s part it’s in it’s in my blood. Now. There are certain aspects of Victoria that I still love and adore and still part of me. And as I have mentioned, you know, I am a tragic North Melbourne supporter, which you know, would probably been a lot easier to stop barking for the West Coast Eagles here yet. You know, if you’re a real follower of football, you never change a football club. So you know, I’ve stuck with that. And you know, there’s a I love going back to Melbourne Melbourne still feels very very special to me but Perth is home wi is home now. So it’s always nice to visit but it’s even better to come back home.

 

Bryn 

Yeah, I then so I’ve lived in wi now coming up for 10 years and haven’t spent a lot of time in Melbourne. What what are the major differences for you having grown up in one and living in the other now?

 

Nic Hayes 

It was I think when I say missing one with my family all my family and friends are in Melbourne and that was really hard. It wasn’t so hard back in the day to leave because of this. This Western Australia this whole Perth was one big adventure. This was you know, I was a 25 year old kid who was given an opportunity or 26 year old kid 25 I think I was it to run a state office and you know to get in and and and get away from my parents get away from My friends get away from everything that I did No. Yeah. And just started off in this adventure. And it was. It was exciting. It was hard to leave. But at the same time, it was just a joy to. And then as time went on, I just went this place is remarkable. You know this I started referring to it as God’s country. Because having worked in and I, immediately the minute I got over here working media. I remember my very first radio interview that I did, and we were talking about the top issues that were happening around NWA and there was an arsenic spill down at Coburn sound right? And as a Victorian, if you read the word Coburn San, it reads like Cockburn sound

 

Bryn 

Yeah, of course. That to me when I read

 

Nic Hayes 

Yeah, I read it and I and I talked about it on radio and I was very quickly corrected by the the radio presenter that it’s Coburn sound, Nick, and I said no, no, it says he cockpit and sound. And we’re having this argument here. I am a Victorian been in here in the place for three weeks. Yeah, telling someone from Western Australia is how to say your name, but it’s like, very quickly, you know, got party gets into your blood. Yeah, Perth and it was, it was a remarkable time just to really explore and see a space at one it was out of my comfort zone and to, to do it all on my own because everything I’ve done up until then, sort of you always had friends and family had full back then there was no fallback here. So it was it was the differences. You know, moving on and getting out of there, I think, you know, you chance and you would have experienced this, you know, leaving your home, country and tan is to, to get out of your comfort zone, get away from family and friends that have been always there to support you. And I don’t know, not that I’ve wanted to for any negative reason, but other than just to go out and do it on my own. Yes. And we got that opportunity to do it here.

 

Bryn 

Absolutely. There’s a certain amount of freedom here, both in terms of movement in space, but also opportunities

 

Nic Hayes 

Oh, and it hasn’t, it’s not Melbourne or Sydney in Western Australia has its own. It has its own identity. Now, you know, if you I’ve lived in Adelaide for a year Adelaide has no identity and I’m sorry for all the Adelaide listeners that you have but yeah, it’s the Adelaide and mixture between Melbourne and Perth. It’s not quite Perth in its relaxation, its lifestyle, etc. It’s beautiful beaches and wonderful climate. And it’s not quite Melbourne in its business and its corporate approach to everything and, and, you know, very vibrant in its cultural scene. So I feel sorry for those that live in Adelaide because you’re not quite you’re not quite well, we’re not quite Perth, and Earth has that. And I refer to it as God’s country has that feeling that, you know, I was working but I never felt like I was ever working one day in my life. Yeah, I just always felt like I was on holiday running into the office. You know, between eight and five And, and then just enjoying life it was it was an amazing experience to get over.

 

Bryn 

Awesome. So media is your game

 

Nic Hayes 

media is my game,

 

Bryn 

indeed. And so where does the love of media come from in the next story?

 

Nic Hayes 

about it? Okay, well media media, funnily enough, when I was at university, I did a Bachelor of Arts majoring in psychology and, and media was my minor. Right. And that media was the most fun part of going to university. Yeah, it was, you know, you were in a lecture theatre with a whole heap of young people that were determined to tell stories that wanted to tell stories in a different way that the media and the medium of radio, television and even print media was just, you know, it was phenomenal. It was it was so exciting, where psychology was so practical. There was so much theory was thrown at you and you would you really felt like you were a student you’re back in doing it and it was. Media was just so much fun. And I never thought I’d ever get a job in media. I just thought that was just my minor. That’s what I’ll do. Yeah. If life does throw, you know, spanners into the works now and then and I’d done I had, I had I did one year of university then when join the army. So that was back in 1992. There was Gulf War One it just happened. Yeah. And the government and realised that they didn’t have enough troops in the system. So they started up a scheme called the ready reserve scheme. Yeah. Now the ready reserves game was was just between introducing the influx of 5000 6000 soldiers in one hit. So I did that. And, and that sort of interrupted my university life. So as I came back to university after doing one year, full time and four years part time, my whole lava media sort of rose well above my ears. Psychology. I mean psychology I think still thinks fascinating anyone who’s who’s a psychologist and I mean just the study of the mind and behaviour is just is phenomenal. But there was just a lot of work there that I wasn’t prepared to do. So, media very quickly became my major. And psychology became a minor along with maths and I thrived in it. I absolutely loved it and adored it and met some wonderful people along the way and, and as I was finishing off my degree, I sort of did well, I end up joining the police force of all things. So I see where this this podcast really does go off in tangents doesn’t it? Once you start doing some self reflection, you say, well, then I’d finished my degree or I’m here, I know. But before I finished my degree, I’d actually joined the police force the Victorian police force and because partly coming out of military and military life and then going into the into university of still had an appetite desire to do something in that part in that yeah

 

Bryn 

that’s why you like uniforms like

 

Nic Hayes 

well he hasn’t got on your side and you know you can do that no I as a kid always wanted to be a police officer and so I don’t know why but and I’ve fulfilled that I got in and hadn’t quite finished my degree I’m still a part of the ready reserve and I just joined the place for so that put a minor hot in finishing my my degree in media, but it wasn’t a long haul because I was only in the police force for 12 weeks. Yeah, yeah. 12 weeks. It’s not a long time. I was 12 weeks into a 20 week police academy course which ended up me sort of departing and resigning at week 12 and look then after that, did a bit of Europe European travel and then came back to my degree and finished it off. So that’s how I got there to

 

Bryn 

eat. I’m over this degrading it and

 

Nic Hayes 

I think most people do, right? I don’t know if it Back in the days, you weren’t really, a lot of my friends, half of my friends decided that straight into the workforce. That’s what they did a couple of my really dedicated and, you know, friends that concentrated on it, you know, finish their course, in the years that were required, but others were, you know, jumping in and jumping in. And I still, at that point didn’t quite know what I really wanted to do. Yeah. So you know, hence being in the army, then being in the police force, still hadn’t finished my degree, but after that, came back, finished it off. And, and then and then I was I was working in hospitality for a little while, and I’ve got an opportunity to work or I applied for a job for a meteor intelligence agency called rehand. And they were, I mean, they, they were just the leaders of what they were doing the really, you know, if you think about it, anything that you say on radio, television or print media, businesses and governments want to know, so I got a role there as a as a social Manager. And that’s where I sort of took what I learned and and put it into into a media intelligent space, which was a slight different to producing radio and television to actually monitoring it. Yes. So it’s it was a different, different sort of position, different stance, but I got there in the end. And since being doing media intelligence, I did that for 1210 years here in Australia, and then three years in the UK, came home and said, No more can’t do it anymore. That’s it That’s done. I want to I want to do something I want to do more consulting. I want to be a part of other people’s media journey more so than monitoring what what they’ve been doing. I’d rather be empowered and and help them. Yes. Get in there. And that’s and that’s a suppose we’re media stable. Yeah. was founded and has blossomed over the last eight years. Right.

 

Bryn 

So tell me what is media They will do.

 

Nic Hayes 

Okay, so in a nutshell, that’s important in a nutshell. Media stable is a platform for experts and commentators, people of business people who are good at what they do to project themselves into the media. So for media to be able to see who these people are so if you were to compare it it’s like a LinkedIn platform right for media media to find the right experts and commentators to work with. Yeah, and at the same time, we’re also content producers ourselves so we encourage our experts to put together content to feed into the media so that the media can pick and choose what they want whether

 

Bryn 

it’s gotta go flares up they can come to you to find somebody to come up with an informed you Yep, the same part time those people with informed view and create content to create a story correct on it. So spot

 

Nic Hayes 

  1. And it’s, it’s got to be two ways because the media itself we saw it many many years ago, most eight years ago was that The media resources were drying up bone personnel and also to on a financial level. Yes. And there were less people working behind the scenes. Yeah. So what we wanted to go about and do is create a resource that media could use not just to find any old person but find a qualified person. Yes. And also to to feed content of different ideas and different opportunities for them to go. You know what I like that. Let’s work with that. So little bit different to a press release, because most media today aren’t reading press releases. Yes, these are just little snippets, little crises of stories and yarns that they can work with and go I like that. Let’s work with that. And contact them directly. We stay out of it completely. And that has been used out where we provide all the contact details of the expert so that your media doesn’t go virus, they go straight to the expert for commentary around the item that they’ve introduced. The other side of it is if if the media is looking for and in the case of just last week, The Weekend today’s show was looking for a leadership expert. You know, we put our best leadership expert in front of them. Yeah. And send it over. And you know, within minutes they booked to appear on the Today Show. So

 

Bryn 

that’s really just thinking it through that would really accelerate things then for Well, for the journalists and the media programmes themselves. Yeah. Yeah, whilst also having the benefit of people who wouldn’t normally get picked up and have the opportunity to share their gold nuggets and wisdom and things like that. It gives them an opportunity to put something out to inform things

 

Nic Hayes 

for it does it does it look that the media system, it’s not that it’s broken, it’s just that it’s not meant or to a level that it once was? Yeah, there’s not someone sitting there standing by the fax machine. Remember the fax machine? Yeah. Someone sent me something with the fax machine number are they still around really awesome, but the people Dun,

 

Bryn 

dun dun fi to on your Mozi copier.

 

Nic Hayes 

But it’s better than it was back in the day there was a producer or there was an intern that would sit by the the fax machine taking it off, you know all the different pieces of content and information that was going around. And and and really go through it with a fine tooth comb to say, all this is a good yard. This is a good story with work with this. Today, you know, 90% of emails that are sent to journalists are deleted before they even before they’re even opened. Yes. And that’s because just all the amount of junk that’s going on all the the amount of content that’s not relevant that sent through also to a lack of understanding of how journalists work today. Yeah. And that comes from from all levels from public relations companies right down to business owners. And I suppose when media stable fits in is that we sort of know how they work. Yes, we’ve built relationships with And, you know, the days of relationships are still here this

 

Bryn 

year there.

 

Nic Hayes 

We work with those that we trust, we work with those that we’ve had content from before that we know that is, is going to be right it’s going to be on the money it’s going to be correct. Because we don’t have any time to waste. We don’t have any time to sift through. We are all time poor. Yeah, we were media stable, just take that element out and make it a little bit easier. And and both media and the experts appreciate it. Because we can help them become better communicators and for the media, we help them get high quality content to Yes, because they do tend to miss up now and then the poor old media sometimes they’re interviewing the wrong people sometimes that when I’m when I say the wrong people, people who say they are who they who they are on paper, but they’re not actually that person at all. So the you know, we We’ve worked hard to build that trust and resource therefore there

 

Bryn 

must be a whole stack of people and relationship management in this.

 

Nic Hayes 

We’ve got it with we’re on it. As in for media, several spots. Yeah. We’re a team of five, and we work nationally across the country. Yeah. Look, the perception that we work with just over 270 experts at the moment. Not all them, again, half media wanting to go out tomorrow. And they’ve got structured systems here that, you know, they’re going to have key moments and times, but relationships, the connections with right let relationships with the media, we work with 700 personnel across media that know us and work with us. And they are reaching out for content. But that’s because we’ve we’ve we’ve actually built that relationship connected with them will meet with them. And as long as our system and our service continues to deliver high quality. Yeah, they will continue to use it. The minute we throw a couple of curveballs In there are a couple of runs, you know, we record for either. Yeah,

 

Bryn 

so what constitutes an expert?

 

Nic Hayes 

expert? Look, I, I’ve got a, I’ve got this vision of an expert that someone who has been doing what they’ve been doing for 10 years, right, as a minimum, someone who is either a leader or owns their own business, has the ability to make those decisions. has an opinion. That’s, that is supported with facts and evidence. But the opinion is not always going to be the right opinion. You know, everyone’s got the beautiful thing about what we’ve got is that everyone’s got opinions. Oh, yeah. What we have here is how you argue it, how you sell it and how you present it and put it forward. The best opinions and the best media is when we’ve got two opinions, two opinions fighting each other. Yes, is that creates the trouble and when there’s trouble with We’ve got a really interesting media. Yeah, correct. Because definitely, what’s not an expert is someone that wants to sit on the fence and you know, you’ll, you’ll occasionally hear the word no comment, you know, that’s not an expert. That’s someone who just refuses to answer the question. Yeah. An expert is someone who I strongly believe, has a passion and, and, and a reason to want to present their information or present their ideas and views to a larger audience because they want to leave behind their thoughts and views, they are making an impact, they’ve got to make an impact. They want to leave a legacy, they want to be someone who is prepared to do that, and you’ve got to want to do it, you got to be good at it. And you got to be available and they the other three elements of a good quality expert, because the other side of it is is that if you’re not available, if you’re not available to give you your expert opinion, then you know, it’s just salt at the end. So there’s lots of little elements behind an expert. But I think that anyone who’s who’s qualified and believes that they’ve got something to share, and can back it with facts and evidence. We see them as the experts.

 

Bryn 

And it’s interesting that there seems to be more and more of a focus on experts actually getting their views out there. As opposed to just sort of generally taking messages on board. Yeah, now we’re getting more and more focused experts. But same, it’s interesting, because at the same time, you know, with the advent of the internet and stuff, we can Google something and then we feel like we’re the pub experts. Yeah. Why?

 

 

Yep. So

 

Bryn 

yeah, I guess it’s the interesting part there of how how do you compete between an expert expert who actually won’t have a better phrase knows that shit? Yep. to the pub expert is just

 

Nic Hayes 

We all know everyone that’s listening to this will know a good public spirit. Yeah, I know people that knows everything. Yeah.

 

Bryn 

You know, we’ve all been in a dinner party onto the toilet. Google said that come back and slightly more knowledgeable. 10 seconds long. Yeah, I

 

Nic Hayes 

think that definitely the the emergence of the internet and Google and everything along the lines, their social media has been incredible for that. Because, you know, they were there was once a time when those that aren’t the experts that could voice their opinions and position. And it was very quickly lost because it was lost in the pub. There was no yeah, there was no recourse. There was no follow up. There was no amplification of any of the content that they’ve produced. It’s now social media is allowed this Yeah.

 

Bryn 

And they were in the pub, you get some very solid, real human feedback. Like you might say, yeah, that’s crap.

 

Nic Hayes 

Yeah. And that’s called the pub taste

 

Bryn 

at Yeah, and that’s real. Yeah, that’s genuinely where you get the feedback, the body language, everything.

 

Nic Hayes 

Yeah. And you know what, I think You know, we do and I, you’re going to hear something crazy from me saying I think we’re going to revert back to that. You know, I think that there is certain things that are going on in media today that and particularly social media that the trust element has been lost in that everyone seems to be have a position I think they’ve got an expert opinion on. They’ve got a say in it. And I believe everyone should have a say everyone should have an opinion. But the biggest challenge right now is the expert opinion of people, the expert position of people who is the trusted person who is the trusted advice that we should be listening to, you know, we were discussing issues in media today around climate change. We’re discussing issues around the Australian bush fires, you know, yeah, we’re talking all things around what Donald Trump talks about in fake news. Donald Trump only calls fake news because it’s news he doesn’t want to hear. You know, that’s a quick slander there for that, but it’s for some elements. So social media, there is a lot of fake news. You know, it’s constructed for a particular purpose and message, you know, news I The reason I think that we will return back to a form of all the reason why traditional media and like radio, TV and print and online, they still cover the four pillars of journalism, they still believe there’s quality control checks that need to take place on the four pillars. So on a you’re gonna you’re going to test me on this one. But the it’s the for the for journalists, they have to follow four protocols around anything that they’re presenting. And it’s taking out the opinion it’s, it’s around the source, the identification, the truth behind any of the sources that they’re receiving it from. It’s the quality control checks that just place at the editorial space and NGOs can’t put anything on radio. You just can’t put anything on TV when you hear it but even still, there is quality control checks and and even legal ramifications are What you’re putting on it, but on the internet, it’s free for all. Yes. So, you know, there will come a time when we start there people will start getting. There’ll be criminal actions there will be slanderous actions. libellous actions taking place for people taking and making accusations around people on the internet. I think that the internet has turned us into what I see is moving as a platform where there’s a platform of high good, like there is, there is snow things that we’ve seen that, you know, people raising money for the Australian bushfires incredibly well through social media. But I don’t think that actually makes up for all the bile and spirit that is in social media, generally. I mean, there really is a lot of content and information out there that you sit there and you go, what are these people actually thinking when you’re sending it out? Oh, yeah. They think they’re faceless. But the real reality here is that you’re not that we can pin your back to exactly who you are and what you stand And some people want their 15 seconds of fame, they want to do it and they want to get retweeted and pushed out and amplified further. But the reality here is that a lot of the information they’re putting out it’s just it’s not right. And also too, it’s it’s ugly. I really sometimes you just want to have a break from social media because you go, seriously, this is what people are thinking. Now. I can’t You can’t put up with it. Sad indictment

 

Bryn 

if that’s where everybody is.

 

Nic Hayes 

I it’s a miserable, miserable place. I one of my first tweets for the year was Can people just karma farm? Sincerely, you’re not going to get through 2020 you think you’re going to be like this people’s people’s heart, right must be up, walk through the roof, blood pressure must be going wrong. And you would think that we’re living in the worst of times. I personally think we’re living in the best of times. And yet, people just want to get in. They want to get negative. They just want to you know, feel I want to throw I’ve got a bit of a theory this might be the psychology side behind coming from is that they want to throw mud and throw things out there to forget about how they lost going and how maybe they hitting damn their paths hitting. Yes, they want to have a go with everyone else except for having a little bit of an introvert look into to what they’re doing in their own life. And yeah, I just feel that’s that’s social media at the moment. It’s it is it was

 

Bryn 

I’ve been doing a bit of listening to particular couple of particular sources of malingering on money on myself particularly having done the number of podcasts that I have, and I get the sense at the moment you know, if we’re going to look at social media that there’s always an identity crisis going on within people. Yep. However, they really don’t know who they are. When the games bombarded by so much stuff. Yep, from so many different Places, you get all these slivers of the top 1% of excellence in people’s lives, and then you stick them all together and constantly compare yourself against that. Yeah. Oh, my life’s not quite like that.

 

 

I don’t look like that. I don’t drive that car like that.

 

Bryn 

Yeah. And then there’s all this Bible on there as well. You’re not getting that instant feedback like you do when you make in the pub, guys. That shit, Nick. Yeah. You know. And so people’s form and an identity at one level, it’s going through an enormous crisis.

 

Nic Hayes 

Yeah, but bring it You said that was shipped to me, Nick. And we’re having a beer. Yeah, I take that on board. And I take that for real. Yeah, the problem is that there’s faceless people out there that have thrown mad at you. Yeah. And you and some people and the majority of people we take it in which we start getting affected by it. Yeah. Whereas they’re actually just the keyboard warriors that a sitting there having a crack at everything. Yeah, you know, I’ve been amazed. You know, I’m I should let it now I do work for quite a few different organisations that are the focus of a lot of media. So in in the case of I work for a little organisation called the sheep collective. Now the sheep collective is a group of farmers. They’re a group of transport people there. There’s those that are exporting like the life shake trade. And you know, obviously, that’s been under fire by the media across the board. But when they came to us and sat down also to with another Meteor agency, they just said, Look, we just want to change the narrative. We don’t get a voice in all of this. Yes, because only one side’s ever told. Let us tell can we tell our story? And when you go back and have a look at the story and the way that it all plays out, you go Hey, and I’ve got to say from the beginning, I was sceptical about it myself because I was also subject to that one sided conversation. I said, Look, I’m not sure I really want to take this on but you, you listen to the to the people you listen to their side of the story and You’re right, you have a right to talk about this, you have a right to tell your side of the story, because this is being completely meat. So animal activists, you know, they’ve got a particular role and job, I love their animals, I get it, but also to we’ve got a job in a role to keep this country going. And there was people to feed and you know, whether you’re a vegan or not, I’m sorry, but I love my meat, and I’m going to eat it and so does the rest of the world. But the way that that story was being told was, we managed to push it out in a different way. We managed to start communicating it. So that media took advantage and took the opportunity to have a look and go, Hey, this isn’t what that lot over there been saying. It’s it is, this isn’t the drudgery, drudgery of of humankind dealing and Mel treating animals to all levels actually. It’s a very different story. And that to me, it was an opportunity there to go. Look, everyone has a story that should be telling it. It’s just like times some voices are louder than others. Yes. And it tends to be those with the littlest of following, or the more negative tend to shout out the loudest. And we’ve got a real problem here bring because the problem is is the politicians listen to this stuff. They actually listen to what’s going on in social media. And I, I think that they’ve got to completely step back from that start leading like they used to start making decisions around, you know, some legacy in mind will correct but also to make some tough decisions. Don’t worry about what Twitter says, Don’t worry about what Facebook’s going on. You’ve got the right you made the right decision, you’ll get rewarded for it at the end of the day. And I think sometimes social media they live on the way where they you know that the old days of traditional media where the newspaper came out once a day, you know you had a 24 hour chance to soak it all in and make some very good decisions and we leave on some time to reflect Mr.

 

Bryn 

St. Never thought about that. It’s never

 

Nic Hayes 

it’s just minute by minute or minute by minute second, correct second by second millisecond by millisecond. It’s who in making decisions and policy on the run that you sit there and you go, you know, what, if we had it, john Howard was probably the last of the Prime Minister’s here in Australia that wasn’t so subject to what was going on in social media. He was he, it was he Facebook had just emerged during his prime ministership, and, you know, the the other social media platforms were starting to emerge, but he was able to make decisions and reflect on them. And I think that was probably if you go back in time, you know, a decade of poor leadership, from from federal government wise, has also also correlated with the fact that we’ve had the emergence of social media. They’re too worried about lining their own pockets and getting reelected. And they are about governing and leading. Yeah, and, you know, look, I don’t want to put social media down to the point that it is the you know, it’s the killing of humanity. It’s nothing like that no social media has so many positive it’s it’s, it’s playing on role playing to bigger robinia. And that and that is what probably, you know, most in newspapers, radio and television will say is that the advertising spend is headed over towards social media, as opposed to you know what? People still trust, print media, they still trust radio, and they still trust TV, and they’re just not viewing them as much. And that’s the challenge there for the media houses is to go away and say, Well, how do we bring you back? Yes, and the only way they can bring them back is still continue building that trust. And that those real news stories because what you’re reading and seeing on Facebook, I can assure you, you know, take it with a grain of salt, don’t take it with a grain of salt, take it with a bag of salt. Yeah, because, you know, there is a good chance that what you’re reading or seeing or viewing is is just not right and, and I get back to the four pillars of journalism that I haven’t been able to account for you but the quality control That he’s around it Yeah, there is protocols that journalists have to take to do what they’re doing and we all know that certain media has bias there’s no denying that yeah you know the West Australian seven West and you know what Mr. Stokes has implied and what he will do is very different to that of a channel nine or but say News Corp publication they’ve all got different positions Murdoch and I we’ve only just seeing it in recent times that Murdoch son is having a crack at him for all the all the news and information he’s putting through his newspapers on climate denial. You know, they are they have a position but we know that, yes, on social media, we don’t know the musician and that’s when sometimes we can get a little bit distorted. So that’s one of my bugbears Brunei I sort of I get frustrated around social media in some cases, but I I’m a participant in it. I very much still playing in in Facebook, Twitter, and and and even LinkedIn. I think sort of say that as a social media platform, I see it as a social working network. But yeah, you know, Twitter, Twitter has its pros and cons, but it is just just a little bit too much content prior.

 

Bryn 

This is almost be a lack of conscious usage.

 

Nic Hayes 

Good. Good point. I think that you know, people more unconscious, you know,

 

Bryn 

kind of when you’re participating in it, who’s driving the bus, you or your 12 year old self?

 

Nic Hayes 

Yeah, I think I think that there seems to be an a perception that there is a lack of either responsibility or the repercussion on anything that we’re saying. But, you know, there’s a little thing that we used, as we say, in media, you know, don’t say or to anyone really. Don’t say anything that you wouldn’t say to your grandmother. And, you know, if you if you’re prepared to go beyond that, then be prepared to take the repercussions that come with it. Because, you know, we’re seeing people getting sacked for posts that they’re putting on Facebook and on social media. Yeah. And you think my that’s my personal life, you know, you’re putting your personal life in a public arena. And that will reflect on the brand if the if that’s the way they feel about it. Yeah. And I think rightly so. Because you know, you’ve got an international stage you’ve got a global stage here that’s sitting a that anyone can go away and and and view Yeah, you’re in trouble if you if you’ve decided to do that. And we’ve got a certain Israel Folau rugby player who wants to put his personal beliefs above everything else and and that reflects poorly on the brand. Like, that particular brand didn’t do itself much favours its way that it handled it, but no, you know, it’s everything. So globally, we’re looking over the fences, it was once a day, you could look over the fence to your next door neighbour. Now you can look over the fences of every neighbour. True and that’s a little frightening,

 

 

huh? So where where

 

Bryn 

The traditional channels of media Now you mentioned around the TV radio print.

 

Nic Hayes 

Where are they now? They’ve they are in a position where they’ve lost their core market their core audiences to the the social the online site and they’ve it’s a highly competitive space. Like even us right now we’re doing a podcast. Yes, this is competition for radio, okay with a radio like set or not. But you know, podcasting has grown right across the globe, because now as a consumer now, what has happened is that the broadcaster’s have now at the whole system’s been flipped, because the internet allows us to click on the content that we wish to get a ruse or at the time that we decide Yes, not when Channel Nine decides to put it on, you know, married at first sight at 730. Yeah, because I know that’s one of your favourite programmes. Absolutely. But You know, they tell you the time that you’re going to be viewing and watching. Yeah, whereas now today, we don’t go at 930 Oh my 730 I’m gonna go watch it at 1030 we’re not when it’s my time. Yeah, when I’ve gone down to the pub and had a few beers with the boys, I’m going to go back and watch it. Big fan of married at first sight of my say, not really. But you know, but we are we are click, we’re now we’re clicking on as consumers. It’s, it’s in our time. We’ve got control of that. Yeah. And that’s where the likes of Netflix and the emergence of all those online platforms have now said, right, if you want it, just click a button for Yes. Whereas broadcasters never had that they’re getting their act together. They’re becoming better at that they’re, they’re allowing for online you know, reply and call back so they’re getting better. They will just a bit slow off the mark. Yes, that print is a funny old base because you know, they weren’t used to call print media, the rivers of gold in advertising. Remember when you used to pick up a set of a paper and you’d literally have to get a full Clift take it home. It was the size of your your telephone book, your telephone book, bring it over the

 

Bryn 

books, the other strong man.

 

Nic Hayes 

Well, those things don’t exist anymore. No, they were the rivers of gold because there was every little line that was there. That was about $99 95. For every single line that was in it was that it was just pure money making opportunity. But now it’s all online. So newspapers are thinner. But the thing is with newspapers and how we consume them is that we can consume them anywhere. And we can take that information and newspapers to to where they missed the boat with online was the fact that they gave it away for nothing for such a long time. And now all of a sudden pay walls are coming up and they’re expecting us to pay for it. Yeah, we will start paying for it again, for sure. But it will take a generation for that to happen because they gave it to us for nothing and it takes a little bit for us to return. back. But radio is still growing radio is still emerging and in particularly country like Australia where, you know, what’s the first thing you do when you get in the car, you check on the radio, or if you’re not listening to wi real, there’s a podcast. So, you know, that’s the first thing you do we still as just the nature and the geographic position that we are we have to do that. And yet radio is beautiful too, because as a medium, you can listen and do two things at once. Whereas television and and print media, you’ve got to really just sit down and concentrate. It’s still vibrant. It’s there’s still a lot of energy in there. And and I’d mentioned earlier that the resources have been kept both on a financial and a human side of it, but there’s still an appetite to deliver high quality information and content through those and they still got audience and and the audience is still those that are the decision makers, those with the purse strings. Yes, you know, those that are making big financial decisions are still consuming traditional media. Yeah, yeah, they’re still getting their head around social. But we’ve got generations now that have never paid for a newspaper. The brain, I never paid for a newspaper until I was 28. No, I never paid for a newspaper. You know why I wasn’t that interested in it unless I was reading the sports pages. Because until you start buying cars and homes and stuff like that and become part of the big, you know, societal machine, and that builds, you tend not to. So there’s all little different arguments here. But I think that the, I think that media has, and I talked about earlier that it might, the whole system may flip is that we’re going to get to a point a critical point where what we’re hearing and seeing on on social media is is going to be way too much for us. We’re just not going to be able to cope with it. Yes. And we’re going to go back to the sources that we trust. And the big challenge for all the media houses is to continue to produce high quality content. Good news, news that is is is real and news that the people need to hear? Not necessarily want to hear? Yes. And that may there’s a real difference there what they need to hear as opposed to what they want to hear. And that’s really interesting because that led me to another question I’ve got for you about content in general.

 

Bryn 

I, several years ago, made a conscious decision about five or six years ago made a conscious decision to a reduce the level of coffee or drinking, but also the level of just media because I just felt I was given a whole lot of stuff that just wasn’t nourishing me. Yeah. And it felt like it was stuff like stuff that the base level of I’m a sound engineer, but the base level of people probably wanted to hear when I wanted to hear the stuff that I felt I needed to hear and I just didn’t know where to go. Yep. And that was one of the reasons that led me to create wi rail and create the vehicle that opens the door. To be able to have conversations with experts who are better or people who’ve got stories and their opinions so I can get that real nourishing exchange of views and ideas and content. And so for some time I’ve I’ve probably disparagingly looked at the media with the internet involved in that as well. Just being undernourished and giving people what they want at a base level, you know, and that takes me almost back to Roman times of how to become the next Emperor will give them 30 days of games and then they’ll give them bread and then they’ll vote for you. You know, and oh, how do we get away out of that? It’s a Tony Romo saying right? No more Are we going to watch married? Yeah, which I’ll be honest is that just is the base to me person is the basis level. He couldn’t be really blunt, mini London reality TV, Alex and guy Yeah and I’ve got a degree in psychology as well.

 

Nic Hayes 

Oh, and I but I just you managed to get past the four years of Yes, I got past.

 

Bryn 

But there’s so many other things in the world. Yep, so many other things, but even in the world, like Middle East or anything, so many things in the world, probably within 1010 k radius of where you are, that is going on, they can expand your horizons, they can be nourishing, and introduce you to perceptions that are bigger and greater than yourself, which for them means that you can find new and greater things about yourself.

 

Nic Hayes 

I think this is this is exactly the issue. And I think sometimes when you’re looking for content that is going to, as you say, nourish your soul, you know, build your opportunities you you’ve got to look for and there’s there’s a lot of content that’s sitting in you and what we call the old clickbait material to get your attention and I really want that now, how many of us out there today have clicked on to an article or something there and then realise that the thing is did not deliver anything that I thought it might have more often than not more often than not and it’s and that’s the challenge there for traditional media is to stay away from that it that’s what it’s competing against. You know, we are we’re funny you know, you’re psychologist I can we’re funny human beings. We just need to know everything or want to know everything. But I think the other side of it is, is that we can blame media for this. But can we because at the end of the day, it’s the audience that has created this media and this machine that it is and in many ways the media is just catering for the masses and fortunately brings a feedback attention Eddie’s and that they monitoring this in real time, they can see what people are attracted to and what’s going to appear and then they the numbers that they use to apply over to the advertisers and say we can get you this amount of click through. You give me these clicks, or I love the Click through. But where’s the engagement? Where is the connection? Where’s the relationship? And I think in the basic fundamentals

 

Bryn 

impact and outcome, yes,

 

Nic Hayes 

there is none of that. This is all just ice, right? the

 

Bryn 

very start of this and I review it frequently rather the very start, I sat down before to the single episode. Right? There were three parties in this series guest me listener. Yep. And being an ex management consultant, I then went right, so what do I want to deliver for each of those three? And then what do I want them to do with that? And how’s that going to show up so I can see where this goes on by our conversation today.

 

Nic Hayes 

So the number the number one thing for any any any publisher broadcaster podcaster is always about audience. What is it that the audience wants and what can I give the audience and the differences about what they want, or what they need? And I think that all of us need, we want, we want Something that will give us make our days a little bit better. Something that might have educators something that might improve our lives. And that’s and that’s what we’re looking for. And that’s what the media generally is after something that is going to improve lives, make their lives better, and educate them to do something or get something that they wouldn’t have got if I had not listened to watched or viewed What, what, what has gone on there. So if I can continue with that, if media can continue with that, the social media side of it and all the noise that goes on there is a bit like you and I were probably a little bit more aware of this, but we’ll start becoming more discerning about where we put our time and energy into. And I think there is a movement for that. Yeah. And a lot of people it’s funny Facebook is that people are starting to jump off it. Yeah, Twitter is numbers are declining. You know, the reason being is that we can only create a mascot there, but they went to what level? To what level do we do this? And I think you know, traditional media has that. If I can just keep delivering, to regain that audience back and that trust value, I mean, trust, trust has been thrown out the door a lot. You know, we’ve seen a lot of things that are going on. But I think social media is killing trust. And traditional media still has that opportunity to hold it will enrich retain, and also to gain and grow in the future. And then I think that’s the big news for for media, the platforms for which we watching it, reading it on, on paper and newspaper on paper is gone. You know, environmentally, we just can’t continue to do that. Yeah, it’s not sustainable. And also too, it’s not quick enough. Yeah. But we’ve all got now, I can’t use that song anymore. Yeah, yes, tomorrow. Today’s News is tomorrow’s chip wrapper on your English so you probably didn’t have chips in newspapers. I never did. I used to use. Yeah, but that would be that would be glorious because I’d love to eat my fish and chips and then read Yesterday’s the articles but the now I think what there is a real opportunity, a real chance for traditional media to do that. And I might be the optimist in that side of it I might be not as pessimistic around you know, the, the fall of traditional media but the for the only reason traditional media has fallen is its advertising dollars have fallen. Okay. So, you know, in our consumer behaviour has changed. Yes. And and rightly so. And it changes as you go through, you know, that when TV, you know, emerged they said that was the death of radio, radio is going up. Yes. Ever had the reason radio is going up because it still delivers high quality and it allows human beings to engage with it while doing something else. So it’s a very, you know that that was 50 years ago. Yeah, that is still and it’s still going. So, and there was one other one brain I know I do procrastinate going off into different tangents. But there’s a classic photo of a whole line of kids just heads In their screens in their phones, they’re just consumed by it. But there was there was one other photo that was lined up from the 1950s have a whole line of kids and adults, all consumed by the newspaper heads into the newspaper. Yeah, it’s just that we see the screen is the evil enemy today is because we think, Oh my god, we’ve been actually what

 

Bryn 

we are.

 

Nic Hayes 

But it’s just there. Is this that much on it? Yes. And you just it’s hard to pull your eyes away from it?

 

Bryn 

Indeed, indeed. And what have you learned about yourself and your journey with the media and media?

 

Nic Hayes 

relationships, I think when I left the when I left rehome, and the media monitoring side of it, I was always a salesperson. So you know, that was it. I was in that sales side of the the industry and that that was always a little bit. I think you I think any salesperson out there tries not to think themselves as a sub person, yes. But, you know, that moving away to media stable, where we were now consultants, and moving from sales to consultants, I was really, really powerful for me because I really felt but

 

Bryn 

what did that give you? I,

 

Nic Hayes 

it gave me the ability not only to for the outcome, as a salesperson was always there, you were thinking, This is what I need to achieve. These are the goals. Whereas as a consultant, you now were thinking more around the person at the other end, yes, what their goals were, what they wanted to go away. And that was a real turnaround for me. Yes, it was, you know, we had certain targets to reach and go for there were numbers there were numbers, it was a numbers game. But now more so and don’t get me wrong. We are still in a sales environment as well with media stable, but we’re more interested in how what is it that you want to achieve and how can we help you achieve it? And when we’re working together on that we get the best possible outcomes. Because like you made you stay, we’ll just can’t put anyone on the now if I put a dad on the yet reflects not on my dad, it reflects on me. And you know, we’ve had a couple of them.

 

 

Yeah, I won’t name and bring

 

Nic Hayes 

for the night it was a couple of your emotions dry. You sort of just have to, you know, say Look, that’s just it’s just not going to fit with what we’re doing and and how we go about it. But I think for me personally growing as it from a salesperson to a consultant has been a remarkable opportunity. Because I, I can sleep well at night. Yeah, I was incredible. Yeah, you know, I feel like I’ve a choco

 

Bryn 

with the mirror brushing teeth.

 

Nic Hayes 

Oh, look, I never had a real issue back in the days when I was doing the south side because I was actually not just achieving for the business that I was working for. But I was achieving I suppose for the client, but they had a different requirement. They had a different name. It was very much more transactional. Yes. Whereas this is far more relationship and consultative based. And yes, I’ve thoroughly enjoyed that. There’s multiple winds around the table. Yeah. And the other side of it is we’re In the education game as well, so we we want to educate and help people be better at what they’re doing. You know, only yesterday was running a workshop that was designed to not people to join media style, it was designed to help them do it on their own. Right. And that might, you know, Many will say, and I’ve had many people say to me go, why do you give people all this? IP? Why do you give them all this content for them to do it on their own or even shorten their experience with you only stay on with you for 12 months? Not for three years, four years, five years, I said that their goals have been achieved. If they’ve reached their personal goals and their times done. My time is done with them. Yeah. And those that I’m teaching to work with the media. Yeah, if we can give them the tool kit to do it. You know, they know that we’re the ones that have given it to them. If they want to expand on that further then they can come and utilise the services that we have it but i think you know, you know, I work in an industry adding max value. Absolutely. I do work in an industry that there is A lot of smoke and mirrors behind it. But since the since the internet, since everything that’s moving on those smoking mirrors have disappeared. It’s far more visible. And it’s back to basics and better relationships back to high quality content high, you know, good information, and people that are passionate about what they do. And that’s that’s what we’re looking for. And if we continue to deliver it, we continue to do well, I think I think I answered your question. But I think I really thoroughly enjoyed the transition from sales to consultancy in a long winded way they Brittany.

 

Bryn 

And what is the network? If you got any goals for the next three to five years for

 

Nic Hayes 

yourself, maybe start your media stable. I’d like to take it International. I think the model works and funnily enough, I’ve just come back from a European trip with the family and didn’t get a chance to go and meet a few agencies that are over there that have an appetite for what we do. Doing the model, isn’t it? There’s nowhere else. So really? Yeah. And I sort of, I sort of knew it wasn’t, but I think

 

Bryn 

it because to me, it just makes bloody sense. It’s just it just there you go. You got these

 

Nic Hayes 

experts does it? It’s it, you know, it. We know we knew it. We know it doesn’t exist here in Australia last night. And you know, if you would, it was we flipped the system around the PR element, but we also flip the system around. Look, those that don’t necessarily have big budgets to work with media can still work with it. You know, some of the best voices aren’t heard because they’re competing against people with you know, hundred hundred and 50 k PR budgets. But no one else was doing it. But what we back in the day when we’re in our early days, we were getting calls from media going do you know a good family law lawyer. Do you know a good naturopath, nutritionist and we could see that it was on both sides were needing it experts wanted to be out there and media wanted it and why no one else was doing it. But also to I had a PR company that I was working there, I was doing that I was making very good money that I’d work with five or six clients and make just as much money as I’m working with the 200 clients I’m working with now. So it’s a scale system as well, but no one else was prepared to go and do it. So that connection and bridge hasn’t hasn’t been done before. And it’s not been done in Europe. It’s been done in Alyssa degree in North America, but you know, we’ll see how it goes. But getting it right here is first and foremost. And we’re a blueprint. Oh, yeah, absolutely. I mean, look at the Perth, Perth and why is is their fortress, it’s at home. You know, my director of media engagement is the former programme director at 6pm. You know, I’ve got high quality people that have been working in media right across this

 

Bryn 

premise wrong but there’s something beautiful about the isolating nature of Perth which means you can go in Really test something? Yep. In the close environment, you know, the Was it the 1.8 people million people that live in metropolitan per year. And it’s not difficult to find somebody and and test it, test it, test it, test it before you release it to.

 

Nic Hayes 

Absolutely and the opportunity that also that presents to people like myself, I mean, you know who who would let a Victorian 25 year old onto radio and and trying to tell the presenter at the other end that it’s Cockburn sound sense that you know, opportunity here in wi is enormous. Yes, you know, and and you’re right, it is a little fortress, it’s so distant from everywhere else that you can test these and if you get it right in this environment, you can take it national. Yeah. And you can take it global. So in many ways, this is where it all started. We have taken it national, we’re doing extremely well. It is a little bit difficult, sometimes taking calls at 430 in the morning from Sydney who have no regard for our three hour time difference during wonderful time we call daylight saving. But will they have daylight saving? We had the lack of it. But, you know, yeah, because they’re khasinau curtains Anyway, let’s not get on that. But yeah, I think if you get it right here, you can pretty much take it anywhere. Yeah. And we’re a bit fickle with Australians. We’re a bit parochial. We love our little space and environment, you know, we will succeed one day now we won’t you know, we are very much a fortress and if you can get it right in the fortress, you can go you can go beyond it. Indeed.

 

Bryn 

Yeah. And this must get heady stuff working in this space. What do you do to keep yourself grounded?

 

Nic Hayes 

Look, if I’ve got it, I’ve got a couple of funny little quirky things I like to do when I’ve got a I’ve got grass at the front of my placing Karen up that he’s dead now back because I’ve been away but I love going My grass I’m very proud of my grass so I do get out in the garden a little I’m not a green thumb or anything like that I do enjoy that I my boys I’ve got a nine and seven year old who passionate about everything and and there’s not much time outside of that but I love hanging out with them and you know we’re at nippers every Sunday at 40 during footy season, it’s they do ninjas they do all sorts of activities and, and that’s the kind of stuff it’s the family that brings you together. I’m really fortunate My wife is actually is a teacher and the ability to to during school holidays etc really does help the fact that we can get our jobs done both their jobs done and and in my line of business, some of the more flexible with my hours so we can get to those activities that probably a lot of parents can get to. And now that’s a part I thoroughly enjoy. I’m not I’m not I like going to the gym as you can see I’m built like a brick. proverbial but No I’m not. I’m I do just I just I like to exercise I like to get out in the sun. I prefer Melbourne climate probably more so than Perth. I’m not a big fan of the hot weather and it does drive me mad when it fires up he you sitting in your red waistcoat and I’m singing my full suit.

 

 

It’s

 

Nic Hayes 

with a coat on thank heavens, but you know, I do I just I just enjoy being around the environment that is Western Australia. It’s just so much fun and we and most people are happy and and you it pleases me. That’s the little things that just being here just pleases me and keeps me grounded.

 

Bryn 

And the last question I asked my guess is if you could take one little nugget of information and upload it into the collective consciousness. So everyone just gets it.

 

Nic Hayes 

Ah, it’s great. It’s a great one. I think. I think we’ve got to get back to being build better relationships and back to the human connections that that we seem to have thrown out with the bathwater. You know, many, many years ago. I think the one thing that I’d like to see more often and this is probably my disdain for social media is that we’ve distanced ourselves from that actual connection, you know, the ability for you and I to do this, you know, either I talking and having a chat is so rare these days people are not doing this. So if I was to give one little nugget and then and to let everyone get out, get out and converse with your fellow human beings, take that time and if it it comes back and repays you. Yes, it fills your soul with you know,

 

Bryn 

it’s nourishing and healing.

 

Nic Hayes 

Absolutely. So while we haven’t been listening to the radio or consuming, you know, Daily Mail co.uk sort of thing we were having a conversation and, and two human beings are talking now. You know, I’ve been talking a lot of rubbish right now in and you can take it in. You can take an investment you can make that decision, though, but yeah, you know, when. And I think that’s the sort of thing that I’d like to see more of, because if there’s one thing that we know, in my game, it is all about relationships and trust. And I think that trust has been lifted at the door, in a lot of the family life, business life, anything. We We We are now doubtful around where we are where we are, but I think if we can come back to that connection relationship, and build that trust back up, that’s what I’d like to see more people doing. It’s that’s the little nugget. I’d like to leave people with is get out and make an effort.

 

Bryn 

Awesome. Nick, it’s been an absolute pleasure talking to you today,

 

Nic Hayes 

Brian, I could go on for hours. Let’s do it. Let’s keep going now.

 

Nic Hayes 

Another it’s a real pleasure now and look at what you’re doing is fantastic to thank you. And from a media perspective. I feel that podcasting and I’ve been in podcasting myself from for many years. It’s remarkable, how much if you take the time and effort and energy to extract someone’s, you know, in media, you’ve got 60 seconds or in most cases in a newspaper, you’ve got seven seconds to deliver your soundbite. Yeah. podcasting allows it not want to just be soundbites, we’re now talking, really getting in behind people and finding out who they are and what they’re about. And this is this is the medium that I think many people want a bit more long form. Yes, kind of media, not the little snack size bites that they’re getting a find.

 

Bryn 

Certainly in the early part of who I had, a lot of people say nice, great, but could you edit it down? And also know

 

Nic Hayes 

what was frightening for me to think that I’m going to be sitting here for potentially 60 minutes to 90 minutes talking but you go, because I’ve never done anything over Well, I do occasional bits on radios you know, 3060 minutes but there’s that many ads in there between you really only talking for about four.

 

Bryn 

Yeah, so, I mean, I got I also got in the early days interviewed on Fremantle radio, right about the podcast. Yes. And I was asked, you know, who’s the podcast for and who’s it not for? And my first response was, it’s not for people with short attention span. Yeah.

 

Nic Hayes 

Do me people you reckon I’ve got three of these.

 

Nic Hayes 

Sorry. How many people do you think have got through listening to this point in the podcast?

 

Bryn 

I don’t know. You would have to

 

Nic Hayes 

look at the stats. Look at the person right now. I can see that person right if it wasn’t it got through

 

 

someone scratching his nose.

 

Bryn 

But no, thank you very much because I I fundamentally believe in the importance of human engagement. You have gay engagement available. ever done two interviews through zoom and I’m not doing any more. Yeah. I believe in the long form conversation, and yet it doesn’t have the sound bites and yet all of that, but it’s here. And you know, I’ve built a catalogue and built a catalogue and built a catalogue. It it’s, I find it fascinating how many people all of a sudden find me. I mean, it’s like, how many people ever actually actually watched the very first episode of Game of Thrones when it came out? Yeah, they come in episode three or four and then go back and binge and it fascinates me when I get a I get a call out from somebody they said I’ve just found your podcast and I just listened to the last 30 4050 of them. Yeah, well, and and I’ve learned so much and I now know this and I now know that and that just lights me up is that’s what this is. All right.

 

Nic Hayes 

It’s so powerful and if you know some people will have and want the 510 minute pace and but if you if you want to listen to that longer form pace and get behind some I think this is brilliant. And I too experienced something similar. And I had someone come up to me during one of my kids football training sessions and he said, You’re the most disappointing person I have seen this week. I looked at him I’ve never met him. I go, what do you get? And and it had just been the episode had dropped on on my podcast. That was our last episode over after four years broadcasting at one every week, and it was guaranteed and was I and he just said, I just found your podcast. And now you just stopped. So he said, I’ve trail back he’s gone back to number one. Yeah. And he’s listening right through the catalogue. He’s got four years worth to go. But I said all my thank you for that. But, but you’re right you when people do acknowledge it for what it is and what you’re doing, you’re doing it for a reason. But also to I just think that you know, if you can get behind someone, and it’s not just at face value, your money and a bit more. I think it’s so powerful, so well done.

 

Bryn 

Thank you and if people want to come and find

 

Nic Hayes 

Nick at media stable.com that are you. With? We’re Perth based. We’re nationally focused as well and look if if they’re an expert commentator, I know a lot of speakers and a lot of people listen to your programme. So, definitely, if you’ve got an opinion and a view, yes, it’s a platform to share it from

 

Bryn 

dude. Nick, thanks very much for your talk. Good on your

 

 

Cheers. Cheers.

 

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