#148 Connecting to your Children – Shelley Turnbull

Go into the world of children with someone who spends a lot of time there with teacher and successful children’s author, Shelly Turnbull (nom de plume TC Shelley).

In this very enjoyable and light-hearted conversation, Shelley talks about connecting with the world of children, their questions, engagement with fairy tales and how this helps us as adults connect with the treasure trove of our own childhood.

As a 10-year veteran of online teaching, Shelley also provides some key insights and suggestions of supporting children from the structure of the school to studying at home during this Corona Virus period.

For the listener who is looking to further and deepen their connection with their children, this conversation provides lots to consider and do with them.

Read Full Transcript

Bryn 

Hello, welcome back to WA Real. I’m your host, Bryn Edwards. WA Real follows the oldest form of learning of listening to the experience and stories of those around us. Why is that so we can explore these stories so we can find our true self in that. Today, my guest is teacher and children author, Shelley Turnbull. Shelley, welcome to the stage show.

 

Shelley Turnbull 

Thank you. Hello, how you doing? Bryn?

 

Bryn 

I’m very well, I’m very well. So you’re based here in WA. How are you finding that contained life? in Western Australia?

 

Shelley Turnbull 

I’m built for this. I’m a writer. So you know, we’re going Oh, do I have to go out I’d rather be sitting around in my in my pyjamas and coming up with another story rather than actually going out there in the real world and talking to people. I didn’t realise this becoming a writer. I said that I would have to talk to people more. And a year that bit I don’t like. I like talking to kids, which is great. But predominantly, most of my audiences seem to consist of adults. And I don’t like talking to them. So it’s really nice. Um, ha, don’t know, I keep kids are I’m just used to them. I think when I first started teaching, I was the same, I had to give a 15 minute, you know, when you do practicum, you have to do a 15 minute your very first lesson, and it was terrifying. Obviously, after doing this for years, kids are no longer terrifying because I’m used to them. And now I have to deal with a whole new audience and adults expectations are just very different. at all, ask you are they kid like when I go and talk to kids, and they want to talk about the book and then they want to ask personal questions, they will ask me things like, what’s my least favourite vegetable? And do I have gone? Well, it’s my least favourite vegetable. And then the next kid will ask me what my most favourite vegetable is which, you know, they’re okay. I can handle those questions but adults do sometimes. Kids asking big questions, but they they kind of wet Yeah. Which I think adults want to. They want to know how you do something, and they want to know it, and they want that. How do I explain this? Um, when adults don’t like, what what’s your formula for writing? So where do you get your ideas from? No, I had cheese last night and had a bad dream. And it was a great idea. So I wrote it down that I there isn’t a formula. I do often. I love Neil Gaiman’s answer to that question. He says every Friday at about 7pm a small person in emeralds uniform shows up and hand them a brown envelope full of ideas. Kids don’t ask you those questions. And and they don’t get disappointed with your answers. That in fact, the only thing they get disappointed with is if you don’t like what they like, right? If I don’t like dragons as much as they do, they’re a little bit because they really did expect me to like dragons. And I Yeah, and I think also I don’t have pointy years. That’s a huge disappointment for some of them. Because I think a few of them do really expect me to have pointy ears.

 

Bryn 

That’s fascinating. That the difference in questions and yeah, the sort of lack of imagination and wanting more material answer.

 

Shelley Turnbull 

Yeah, yeah. And then and the formula whereas kids will go, they will actually ask you that how did you start that? How did you get they get more specific and they get excited. They just get excited. cited with simple ideas and and just first steps, they just want to know the first step. They don’t want to know everything. And if they do ask you big things, it really is about their personal big things. They’re not industrialist big things. Like, you know how many, you know, they don’t really care if I write 20 books or 10 books or two books, they really just want to know what the next one is. So they’re there. They’re in the moment. So yeah,

 

Bryn 

yeah. And I suppose sometimes, some of the questions I can imagine that you get from adults, ah, either a can be answered as a way to get your ideas from. Mm hmm. B can sometimes miss the point.

 

Shelley Turnbull 

Yeah. And I say adults because adults come in with a different agenda, adults because I’m a children’s writer. Maybe it’s different for writers for adults. their audience is interested in the story and the author, author’s thoughts on the ideas they have in the story. But people come, adults come and listen to me because they want to be children’s writers. Or they other teachers who want to know how to an A, and I get excited. I’m a teacher too. So I should know how to do my book as a class study. And I got his, it’s my brain doesn’t go there. I think I didn’t write the book so that children would have to deconstruct it. Yeah, you know, I do look at books and I go, yes, we’ll do this to Jane Austen. And here’s Shakespeare, he’s been done to death, but we’ll do more of this on him. But yeah, I’m sure William Shakespeare just wrote his plays to be enjoyed and I write my books to be enjoyed. And I think I’ve read books for children that are all about teaching them things, teaching them how to be better children. So that my be better adults. And yeah, they’re not my favourite cheap children’s books. So

 

Bryn 

the moral of the story

 

Shelley Turnbull 

is, yeah, and I think you can’t help put your own thoughts about life in any way. But I think if you’re slamming people around the head with it, that’s not a fun book. So I don’t really I I was asked by Bloomsbury to put a little package together of stuff things kids to do in class, because teachers like it, and I really struggled. Whereas I think you’d give me any other book and I wouldn’t. So yeah, that seems it’s an interesting thing, because my brain is yes, obviously, left right brain or whatever it is now, it just splits. Now I’m writing the story because I like story. Just you asked me to think too much. I think sometimes, at all times you

 

Bryn 

get into writing children’s books.

 

Shelley Turnbull 

I have always wanted to be a children’s writer. I always want to be a writer. I remember writing About snails and slugs and all those fun things kids, like when I was about five, or six. And when I was 10, when I actually knew what the word published meant. That’s what I wanted. I wanted to be a published writer. And I think my biggest mistake and the biggest The best thing I did, and the worst thing I did was go and study creative writing at uni, because I learned skills that everybody wanted to be Tim Winton, and I wanted to write for children. And it’s no, no, no, no, no, you want to write the great Australian novel. And so I tried to pretend that I wanted to write a great Australian novel. And I failed dismally. And yeah, so and it put me off for quite a long time because I was trying to be a real writer. And till I remembered that real writer, and children are a real audience and they’re important audience and I if I hadn’t had before As a kid, I swear I would not have survived my childhood. Right? I did have a rough childhood. When I got to here to Australia in the UK It was great. But um yeah I if I just say I went to belger high school, I think for a lot of Perth listeners that kind of get that it was rough. And we lived in State Housing, which is, you know, you can have some really nice neighbours but my mum always said that you put people in pigsty, they’re gonna behave like peaks. And, and there was a lot I remember going to my school ball, and we lived in the north, an awful big block of flats. And there was a man with a fence picket sticking out out of him on the boy that took me to the ball. Passes man, and a lot of pain. They’ve had just had it Find in the middle of the and, and I was surrounded by people who didn’t read. And I did really correlate between reading. And I one thing that really struck me CS Lewis said that was, um, if you give, you know, in real life and I can’t quote him, but it The idea is that when if kids are going to face troubles and they’re going to face bad people, then you want to give them books so that they can see how heroes behave, and they can see how you overcome. And so for me being surrounded by people who didn’t read my mom was a great reader. So I got it from her, but pretty much everyone else was not. And like my stepfather’s one was not really like mean he would he could read, but he didn’t. And one of my stepfather was not even functionally glued, well. He was functionally literary, I think he could fill in forms. And so looking at the lives of people who didn’t read and the lives of people who did read and Moving towards them was really made a huge difference for me. And I really think, you know, I, I would be one of the few people I know that went to high school that has got a university education. And I was really glad I left. I left high school in year 11 because I actually couldn’t do the study. I couldn’t go home and study there was an awful lot going on. And so I was a cleaner for a few years until someone told me you could actually go back to school, which I was really excited by. And so I did my tea, which ages me know in actual college, and I now finally got to go to university and because I think that was brilliant too because if I had gone through from year 11 teachers are very practical creatures. So they want you to nursing and they want you to do you know something that will make you gainfully employed even when I went to chew it. The teacher went around the room and said what do you want to do with You finish and it was, I want to be an engineer, I want to get into medicine, I want to be good solid job and solid jobs and I want to be a writer. And she went, well, that’s not very practical, is it? And I remember thinking, Oh, no, probably not. And I still agree with her. She’s right. It’s not very practical job. But you know, who cares? And so I did creative writing. And it’s, it’s very hard to get again, gainful employment as a creative writer. So teaching, but I love teaching. So it was it was, it was a good job. But if I had gone straight through as you do, I would have done something practical. And might, you know, this is my heart’s desire. I’ve always wanted to be a writer. So not doing it the straightaway having a few blips in the road. I think one of the things that you asked me where you know about, is there anything on your journey, that, or failings or something and I’m thinking at the time it felt like a like a mistake, and I Wouldn’t finish school and all that. But in hindsight, it’s brilliant. So, you know, I did, I did the wrong thing. I went and did creative writing. And I’m very happy for having done that.

 

Bryn 

The very wrong right thing,

 

Shelley Turnbull 

the very wrong right thing. So I’ve had I’ve had done the sensible thing, I think, yeah. Would I have? Would I be as happy as I am now? I don’t know. I think I was made for this. So very, very happy. Excellent.

 

Bryn 

So I’m probably gonna ask you a question.

 

 

So how is it Nando de Roy kids books? How’s it out? I was a kid once.

 

Bryn 

Yeah. So this helped me to stay connected to your childhood,

 

Shelley Turnbull 

but very much and obviously, the things that I’m writing are very child centred. So I am. Yeah, I am very much and I think being a teacher too. I’m constantly in contact with my own So I remember what it’s like. And I, I think maybe because I had a bit of a rough upbringing, I remember it, um, your childhood stays with you forever, whichever way is my husband had a wonderful childhood. So he’s constantly taking me to places where he had a great time. You know, this is where I went, you know, dirt biking through the bush and this is where I went fishing with my grandfather. So his childhood is still there. So very looms very large in his mind. And so I actually think it’s not as hard for people to get in contact with what it is to write for a child. Just remember what their childhood was because it does stay with you. So

 

Bryn 

so quite interestingly deep about that isn’t always

 

Shelley Turnbull 

your childhood lost forever, which is why I think you have to be very careful with children, because they will remember. So I love that saying, not that sorry. I say To work with teenagers can you tell? Um, it says children will survive anything. And I think that’s true. I think there is some sense of, because they don’t understand they think in concrete, there is a kind of protective bubble around them, while they’re children, that the adult they become, which is why I think teen years are very difficult for both parents and teenager is the concrete becomes abstract and they start understanding the things that happen to them. So you often have a child that survives, but the adult that grows out of that child is still quite hurt, wounded or, or liberated by whatever happened in their childhood. So you do carry it with you for a long time.

 

 

So it seems like part of you know, having sat and listened to I don’t want to become like a Freud in here.

 

 

Yeah, yeah.

 

Bryn 

Having sat through home 40 plus Episode of listening people’s stories there is it always seems that some of the things that you take on during the childhood are part of what will then make you Yeah, or not make you. Yeah, as an adult. And you know, I love one of the greatest things I got introduced to was blaming your parents or blaming the childhood has a shelf life. And if you still do it

 

Shelley Turnbull 

most definitely could be because you’re the adult now. So it is your job to make sure that the next generation of adults have a better better time basically. So they come up and I bet At the other extreme, I look at people who are very mature, you know, very adult and especially the ones who can’t stand children. Kind of child were you. You know, I find that really hard because you work every adult, you know, was a child once and unless they were really revolting and remember themselves as really revolting, which is possible because I have met some really revolting children and I have met some really revolting adults Yeah, I you know from wondering if there’s a link to you I go I you know, when people ask that question, how do you write for children? I don’t see that it would be very hard for too many people unless you are really rejecting your childhood. And often I think that comes down to not getting over it. Yeah. So

 

Bryn 

tight is almost there. What’s coming up for me right now is almost like there’s a kids book in everybody that they show.

 

Shelley Turnbull 

Everybody that they should write Yeah, and I write in fantasy, because what

 

Bryn 

sort of things you cover in your books and just for the person all the listener who’s not listened to me before you You go under TC Shelley?

 

Shelley Turnbull 

That’s me. Yeah, I I do write fantasy. I do write fairy tales because I think if you want the biggest messages and a hero of mine completely, completely I’m contradicting myself from earlier I will take that on board.

 

 

Fairly title of life is a myriad of contradictions,

 

Shelley Turnbull 

cognitive dissonance all the time. Hi, fairy tales. Our way of teaching really is warning people those midnight, you know, those old wives towns were about warning kids without terrifying them. So Red Riding Hood for an adult. You know, the wolf is not the wolf. You know exactly what he symbolises. And you don’t want your little girls and your little boys talking to that Wolf, out in the middle of the forest when they’re by themselves. In fact, you’re probably not interested in meeting him even when you’re with them because We know what the wolf’s symbolises. But we don’t sit down with our eight year old and our nine year olds and say, This is what the wolf me. The wolf is please stay away from wolves. They won’t be hairy, but you want to stay away from them. What? What fairytales do is actually give you a way of cloaking those very big ideas without frightening the children. So they give give you lovely metaphors. Whereas I think you know, by 11 or 12 you can start telling them the truth without it being in a costume. Yeah, up until then, I think you want you want you’re keeping these two things in a real tight tension protecting the innocence of childhood and create protecting their innocence individually. So fairytales are a really wonderful way of doing that. So in my books, Because I the books that I like I said same with the books and actually through really big themes at me. So life, death, dissolution wisdom, they weren’t the stories that told me to just be a nice girl. In fact, they were the stories that told me to speak up and they, I remember very distinctly understanding this which is something that comes through. In fact, one of my characters says it in the book. The main character says what is love and His one of his helpers said love is wanting someone to be the best version of themselves. Because there are people who will emotionally be very, very invested in you. And it will be from very, very different reasons. So they will say they love you because their feelings for you are powerful, but if it’s not their intention for you to be the best version of you. They don’t love you enough. And I remember thinking that very thought in those words when I was 12. So somebody in a book taught me that wasn’t and because I was dealing with adults around me, who wanted me to be like them. And again, I’m going to say like because if my mom ever appears this my mum is not my mum was my lifesaver and absolute love. But there were a lot of people around, you know, when you get kids at school, who you know, if you want to fit in with us, you’ll do these things, the Petri pressure, and you know, you don’t really like me, you actually want me to do the rotten things that you’re doing, because you want me to be like you and make you feel better about you doing those things.

 

 

That way?

 

Shelley Turnbull 

Yes, yeah. It doesn’t go away. If you I mean, bullies the same peer group, group bullies in adulthood. It doesn’t go away. This whole notion that it stays in the schoolyard is a myth. You Adults your bosses will do it. I, I have friend at the moment, same name as me, Sherry, who is Oh gosh, no, no, she’s really embarrassed. Who her? The people she works with? She has one of those people is actually like that. And, and, and you go, and any adults will talk about it with debriefing. And really, if we could just say it the way he’s bullying me know, he’s a bully. And I don’t want to do that. But you know, and when they become your boss, yeah, you have to figure out methods to deal with this person. And that I think the first method is just recognising it. The best method even if you’re stuck stuck in a situation with toxic people is at least to know that they are. Sometimes you can’t walk away from it straight away eventually. Hopefully you love yourself enough to get yourself out of there but sometimes and for kids, that’s exactly sometimes you cannot walk away from a toxic situation. No, that’s why I really, you know, kids get stuck in a situation where they have the least amount of power. So they have to have the most amount of knowledge, I think. So you tell them when you wrap it up in a fairy tale, but you give them heroes, and you give them villains and you show them how villains behave. And you give them the language that helps them survive those situations. So books did that for me. And I just wanted to do the same thing. So to me, yeah, children’s stories are really important. So writing the great Australian novel, for whatever reason, was very important at uni. And I forgot what was important to me. And I it took me a little while to remember it. And that’s why it’s taken me so long to get published. Because Yeah. I don’t know. I’m exhausted. That’s why I arrived. And yeah, I think that’s why I write what what I’m writing and where it’s coming from is not always So easy to

 

Bryn 

find again a movie Tell me from being

 

 

really

 

Bryn 

busy. They often come with a with a fairy tale first or does it come with a little message first and then the fairy tale? That’s why

 

Shelley Turnbull 

you asked me see you’re asking how does it present it to don’t I couldn’t give it again. I’ve had dreams and I’ve had when tech when I was this, I shouldn’t admit to this, but I’m gonna you know, you know, people talk about post post Natal depression. So that’s the big one. Everyone knows about that. And we know about pre Natal. When I was pregnant with tests. I was, oh my goodness. I was preparing for it. Other people, other women. were painting the nursery pink or blue wall or yellow whatever the colour was orange if you wanted it. I was preparing for multiple apocalypse seats. Okay, so I, I was I went to sit heavily pregnant went to see alien versus predator with my friend Jane and she knew I was getting like this. So at the stage where there’s this stage where this alien puts his hand up against a window of a nursery, and you know, it’s just looking at all the candy inside, which is just she literally physically bodily separated herself from my view of the screen and I would start working through so if aliens aliens You know, this is how I will do it to the point and my husband caught it was only box. I had a box of food and a four litre bottle of distilled water in the baby’s room in in the cupboard just in case I needed to self isolate you see I’ve been preparing this for eight guys. I’m just in case I in the box in the water is gone now. I think it did. Take two She was about six months old before I moved it. But I really was and it was anything I saw. I would be I would be like, just in case. So you know, it was not a serene time for me. I have an overactive imagination and I do work well in crises. And the problem with it was I kept I saw, I saw I saw a film, man eating it, bad mood. So you can see I really, really needed to watch what I put in my my brain. I kept having this repeated nightmare of this small child in the middle of this swarm events coming towards them. It was terrifying dream and and I was powerless. And I sat down, that was the one when she was he just kept coming and coming and she must have been that year old. And I sat down and I wrote it out. I wrote the whole book out, moving from the beginning of the book to this scene where I bet Have my main character save this baby out of the middle of this problem? And then obviously in the book and I wrote that book in 30 days, 90,000 words. I had a very small baby. That’s where that came from. This book came from my daughter asked me a question with watching Tinkerbell. And she said money and I am to the point I can now quote this because people are fairies are born from a first love, where do monsters come from? So I wrote your book. So that came from somebody asking me a question. I have other books that start as a short story, because because when I got my agent, she said, Oh, you’ve written this book. Do you have any others I I have like a folder, like about 10 books that are all finished in a folder. Some of them are for adults, and some of them for young adults. And some of them This one was Middle School, because this is the one my daughter wanted me to publish. That’s why so you know, she went all okay. Don’t have all of those and I gave the synopsis but I’m a bit precious I don’t don’t really want you seeing my book to live edited at 10 times so she’s still asking me for these books and because I’ve been working on this trilogy that my my editor has been getting all of my attention so my agents getting like every now and then I get it Have you started editing Anything else? Not yet. So all I have a little bit but I’m not telling her that she may hear this. I should take that back to not working on anything else. I just don’t want my editors telling me to. But yeah, look, I can’t tell you seriously I had a recurring nightmare that came out of this very bizarre Yeah, I did think to myself a bit not until my friend James Do you think the bunny rocks with the yellow ruble the one with the knife surging and I’m going you know, I’m just stocking up and lentils and rice so

 

 

Yeah,

 

Bryn 

yeah, so they really must like. But no, it’s interesting because more and more I buy into the idea that there’s, rather than we have ideas, their ideas out there, and then we just channel into them into them. And they can come in strange ways, whether it’s an epiphany in the shower, or something else a question. They don’t

 

Shelley Turnbull 

yet know what that word inspiration comes from that it’s the spirit residing. So the spirit comes from outside of you, and resides in you. So that’s where the word inspiration comes from. So the notion of a muse living in your walls, yeah, I think I heard who was it there? Who wrote Eat, Pray, Love, she talks about that about and the fact that the Greeks had this, the Greeks had the music The Greeks had this notion of inspiration meant that it was less There was less demand on the artist to come up with something. So what are you doing next? Well, I don’t know. I’m just waiting around for the Muse to tell me what she wants it there’s much less pressure and I must admit, I kind of go with that too. I like I like the idea of being conduit like a gargoyle, you know for. So, yeah, yeah, and I really do have the opposite of whatever writer’s block is, I really have no problem coming up with ideas. So I actually have to constantly file them. Like I’ve got this one at the moment that wants me to write it. And I really got that. Right there. What you just said, Love

 

Bryn 

  1. I’ve got this idea that wants me to write it.

 

 

Or you don’t have writer’s block because it’s not all

 

Shelley Turnbull 

Yeah, yeah, I’m not I’m not I’m not like demanding of myself to come up with an idea. They just they pop up and I maybe, maybe you’re right. Maybe it is like, you know They’re just popping up. She listened to me, because she’s not spending all her time trying to find me. So, I’m trying to make me into what she wants me to be. She’ll just sit there and wait and I’ll just attack her in the shower. So

 

Bryn 

is there a has there been any Corona or isolation? I did start springing up?

 

Shelley Turnbull 

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, look, I have been I have been. I love the whole notion of post apocalyptic and is so so yeah, the notion of being the last man on earth, you know, Mary Shelley, that the whole notion of being an idea, no, those those stories are dime a dozen, but people have done them. So you really have to come up with and it did come up. And I know that’s the one that wants to write it. Because it was something somebody said on Twitter. about Donald Trump talking about the virus being a genius, and and saying how we act from all parts again can’t say that we’re the virus now. And somebody saying, well, it is a genius. It’s certainly cleverer than Donald Trump, you know, and doing anti Trump isms. And and then I made a post. And I went, Oh, because I was just being like, that’s my job. I just get in line, make stupid comments. And I went the moment I saw what I’ve written, I went, Oh, yeah, that that’s what I’m going to do with the wires. And it is not nice. It’s not going to be about self isolation. It was just something said about Trump. Something said about him. personifying the virus and then, yeah, see, I’m backing down to personify because I can’t say the other word. And, and I went, yeah, no, I’m going there. Yeah. And that’s the that’s the story that wants me to write it. So it’s more And yeah, and the thing about it is, there are I think I remember here in JK Rowling, the first Harry Potter came to her on the train almost complete. So as this one, this one has come, I know where it starts and where it ends. And whereas with monster, no, I started with this idea. And then I had to find a character to wrap this concept around. And then and it was interesting because some of the reviews of Sam have been because he is he is literally born in the first few pages. And it is very hard to give someone a personality who has just arrived. And some people have said that, and that initially is quite passive. And I thought it made me think because we really aren’t, we don’t like our passive main characters. And yet, if you think about Oliver Twist, although the twist is a book about a lot of people being very proactive to protect him, and yet he just kind of ride through it so so my Sam for at least the first couple of chapters is a bit like Oliver Twist you just ride through it until he gets the sense of what it is to make it until he gets to want something you’ve got to want something to be able to decide something so yeah, how we got there um went off

 

Bryn 

so and as well as being the author your teacher Yeah. Interestingly right now you’re coming into your own

 

Shelley Turnbull 

I am I am I spent teaching online. So well before this I I am I am splendid isolation. I have always enjoyed it. Actually sometimes interacting with kids in class because I have to do the classroom management stuff. I am not good at that. I mean, I’m okay because I’m 20 plus years of teaching, but there are people who are much better bye I taught for to two schools at 1.1, based in Sheffield in the UK, and one here in Perth. And I was teaching GCSEs A Levels and to the British curriculum while I was teaching to the West Australian Curriculum here. And one of the things I did was and it was, again, me not asking questions me assuming when I got off of the job, it was hilarious because the principal of the school came here and he was travelling his online stuff around Australia, and he was just looking at what other schools are doing. And I really found it fascinating what he was presenting. And I went up and said, How do I get a job in your school and he said, You have to work in Britain, you know, if you want to teach to the British curriculum, and I kind of forgot about this. And I went to the UK I actually went through. I went to New Orleans for a little while when I lived there for a little while. worked on a in a school that, I guess, you know, they call them the projects over there just for a little while helping someone write stuff to get people positive thinking. So kids who have been chucked out of every school to get them to do some positive thinking, which I’m really for changing your mind changing, changing your brain and your mind simultaneously. And then I ended up in the UK and ended up in a British school teaching in Darby, Derbyshire and, and the principal of this school because something I’d said to him and really resonated with him about the medium of teaching online, which is why I’m so fascinated by it showed up on my doorstep and offered me a job. And I went, yes, yes, I’ll take it. And so what he did was forwarded the last teachers work for me, and it was all Word documents. No, it was boring. And I learned I learned how to build websites. And I got myself some accounts without animation. And I made them like a little bit more interactive, I found out that then this is over. Yeah, late, late 1900s. So so the technology is not quite as good as it is now. But and I sent the kids this on CDs. So then they would go lesson one, and it would open up lesson two, and learn all the stuff that that we’re, that, you know, not as much as I could, I didn’t do brilliantly, but three clicks, you don’t want to be any more than three clicks away from your destination. I learned these four things. And this is the thing though, these four things you need to include, if you want a good online lesson, they’ve got to see something, they got to hear something, they’ve got to interact with something and they’ve got to do something. Now those are four separate things, but they can often be combined. So if you give a video that’s obviously seeing and hearing simultaneously, you can do something interactive, so that could be seen and interaction and and also interaction and doing a test. So you want to keep it you want to give them. So a lot of what my daughter’s getting is a lot of I think there’s the science teachers giving her a lot of interactive stuff. And a lot of close stuff fill in this box fill in this box fill in this box. But science really does online lend itself to because there’s so many great websites fit at colour fit Colorado calm. I don’t know what Ph. D. T stands for that tasteful. That isn’t interactive. It shows videos of science experiments. And I think the kids can interact obviously not being a science teacher. I haven’t looked at it very well, but some schools are using that. So they’ve got something to see something to hear and a little bit of interaction. Whereas if all you’re doing is sending kids Word documents, they will disengage very quickly, very quickly. And really all you’re asking of them when you’re doing that is comprehension. So every lesson I’ve got, I’ve got and you don’t have to make it yourself. So there’s now 20 years later. Yeah, literally 20. Because I was doing this in the late 1900s, I was pretty much making everything. I downloaded a new animation programme for myself, because there’s a few things I want to make. But I learned how to use animation software. So I have little videos and they still exist online of Julius Caesar, with my voice changed. I found software that could deepen my voice, and I made a friend of the guy that built the software. It’s hilarious because he, he, he emails a standard survey and said, how would you alter the software? You know, do you have any suggestions and I email this huge email back or can you do this? Can you do that? Can you do this? Can you do this? And can you do it, you know, and one three of the things I did because he it was a it was a game of software. So you put it on, change the voices Send like an orc, or you put it on your site, you send it to him. And for, you know, people, they just want to play online, they want to get into the character. So I said to him, can you make it so that we can overlay backing sounds? So if I’m going to be in a forest, I want to sound like I’m in the forest. So I put a media file, and can you do a fade? So it can sound like I’m moving closer and further away? And can you and one of the ones I asked him, can you make it so it sounds like I’m talking underwater? Because I wanted to do I wanted to do or that I kind of remember the text I want to do but it was like had, you know, underwater probably Moby Dick or something like that. So you know, I wanted an interview, but I used it to do these Julius Caesar. So Julius Caesar runs through each act and just gives a summary against a PowerPoint of what’s going on. So something to see something to listen to. Then you’re given the work, and you don’t even have to do that anymore. Like so that was me learning at that stage. We There wasn’t that stuff out there. But there are YouTube videos and there are Vimeo videos and the one I’m using with my kids at the moment, Macbeth is called my Shakespeare. And it’s brilliant because there’s they’ve got the whole of Macbeth set up the scenes, and a lot of them are interviews. So this guy Routh interviewed three witches to ask them why they tell Macbeth what they do so it really makes it easier to engage so there’s something to listen to something to see. Now can you tell me what you know bank farm at birth was discussing and because Shakespeare’s heart online, I mean, having a teacher go through it in class is hard. But if it’s done and it’s and that stuff is fun, so so in and give them less than you think you need to give them that’s my other advice because teachers do feel that they need to keep kids where

 

Bryn 

imagine right now, because they don’t, you don’t have that human natural instinct to classrooms. Trouble to do this Do this. Yeah, yeah. It’s interesting because I read it recently that if you took if you took somebody from 100 years ago and pulled them into nothing, yeah. Everything would be unrecognisable apart from school. Yeah. And so is this now a great opportunity for us to seriously look at how can we do Scotland?

 

Shelley Turnbull 

Yeah, well, I actually thought like, let’s have a look at the kids that succeed in this environment. Because there will be some that will really flourish. There will be some that will really flounder and last little bit there will be some that really flounder and there are some there’s some situations where Yeah, you’re actually start looking at the kids that need less that more of that. And some kids, some teachers getting the kids there does nothing in my class is suddenly fully engaged and the kid that’s most engaged His colour corn disappeared. And and parents I do have to tell you. You don’t have to check everything the kid does. What would make it useful for the teachers is if you check their assignments, and I don’t mean check to see if it’s right or wrong just check to see if it’s done. So if you know what assignments are due, and teachers are trying and have a look at the kids assignment sheets and just get your kid to show you they’ve done that and you don’t have to read the whole thing just randomly pick a question because I have one parent who thinks not looking at the work is enough that she can see her son upload the work and he has uploaded blank documents to us all. So very clever boy. Mom has seen him upload it and and also kids think they know what they’re doing. And I would say your year 11 and 12 you will probably Get lost unless it’s your subject. So I’m more willing good for checking Tess’s work if it’s your 11th and 12th level lit, but obviously it’s not. It’s good, but I couldn’t check a maths. But if she says to me, and in the moment fortunately, she’s doing seven so I go, right. I can look at her you seven maths and go, yeah, I get this and it doesn’t look right to me. So but she will say no, no, no, that’s what the teacher told me and I go, are you sure that’s what the teacher told me and told you and and I have found that generally in that situation, I’m right. That that’s the teacher because mass is you like you say if if you took the person out 100 G’s mass hasn’t changed, masses extended. Then you probably get more calculus now and trigonometry then you might have got at the end of the industrial era. Tricia has changed in the sense that the focus of it in the Upper School, but that’s all our school stuff, if your kids are 10, and under, yeah, math hasn’t changed, you still divide the same way, you still multiply some way algebra to assign. So if you remember it, and it looks, you know, but some parents really are lost, they’ve forgotten anything that they learned after they were 10. But most of us are actually functionally more numerous and literate than we give ourselves credit for. So, yeah, so it is interesting, just you don’t have to check everything, just check that the assignments actually done and that they’re sending it to the teacher. That’s, that’s really all parents need to do at home. Because the day to day stuff will actually come out in the assignment. If you’re checking your chip kids assignment, they actually need to do all the stuff leading up to get the assignment wrong. So you’re actually yeah, just Because I know a lot of parents at home going I am, you know, I’ve got to work. I’m still working from home. I can’t check my kids stuff. Well, actually, it should self run fairly well. And but the only issue is if that that’s why I think it’s interesting teachers seem to be giving the kids more to do, but it’s on a lower level, because it’s very hard to to be the explainer because that’s a huge part of what teachers do in classroom which is why going and having a look at seeing it someone explain it for you. On the internet is not a bad thing. Using Vimeo and YouTube gone find it. There’s lots out there. Lots and lots and lots. And who’s that brilliant math, Australian math guy, get all his videos? I can’t remember him. He was at scribble as a couple of years ago, so I forgotten his name. Because obviously not maths teacher who was an English teacher, knowing backwards and forwards, forwards. Yeah.

 

Bryn 

For some of the What are some of the common mistakes that parents might be making that the moment that they’ve got to check everything? They’ve got to be on top?

 

Shelley Turnbull 

check everything?

 

 

Almost otherwise I teacher,

 

Shelley Turnbull 

yeah, that’s got to be the cause our teacher kids are gonna be really anxious. So, and I think both teachers and parents have got to do this. This is for some kids, they will flourish. But other kids, they are going to flounder. And the most important thing about your child is their stress levels. Okay, your child, the human being this, this too shall pass. And parents going to lose, you know, the whole year of schooling and and if your child loses a whole year of schooling, it’s a far better option than then ending up with serious anxiety disorder. You know, really, you prioritise if your child is getting so stressed by this, bring it back and if the teachers know not going to do that for you. Um, you know, and some teachers are panicking too, that’s the other thing teachers are, this is very unfamiliar territory for a lot of and so they’re anxious and they’re wanting to do right by your child. So be gentle on them. They are not overloading your child. And and also if if you if the kid says I don’t understand electricity, and you go, I don’t understand electricity either. If your teacher is not providing that conversation, again, you go and find it. Don’t tell your child go research you’re gonna find a video with someone explained it. Because 90% of it. 95% of it is already out there. Somebody already wanted to explain this to their kids. There’s a flipped classroom. the flipped classroom is a concept that I think about 1015 years old, where teachers would actually put this stuff up on videos on YouTube and Vimeo and actually explain the concept and the platform. Kid at home, the kid will learn concept there. And then we come to the class and discuss it and do the homework and do the work. So they would actually come into class a full bottle and that so there’s an awful lot of that material out there. There’s an awful lot. So if your kid doesn’t know something, you don’t know what, somebody out there knows it, it’s really okay. And and this is time, maybe most important thing for your child to learn is their web searching skills. So, you know, Intel says algebra, and he’s doing it differently. Let’s go and find somebody who’s teaching that concept. So who’s out there? A lot out there. So yeah, for both parents, and if you don’t know anything back there. So I’m parents, but we have the biggest thing is dealing when parents are panicking parents who aren’t coping with the technology. So it’s not the material. It’s the technology that’s actually throwing a lot of people by teachers, parents. Oh, Not both, because the kids, there’s some kids who don’t cope with the technology either. That is not their literacy. And we assume because you know, you’re telling you you know that you know, the mythology of the child who can use the DVD and set it up for granddad. Yes. That there’s a high correlation between age and technical skills, but it’s a high correlation. It’s not 100% there are some kids who are panicking.

 

Bryn 

Mm hmm. I guess just even listening to you for a lot of parents that would be a big

 

Shelley Turnbull 

Alright, dies prioritise. Your child’s mental health is the most important thing. Your mental health is the most important thing. Yeah. Um, and you know, even I don’t know what they’re doing. They’re doing in the US but I’ve heard that they basically they haven’t done it here. We still have to assess things. But I know that things like I had a moderation jus this year, and that’s been deferred till 2021 because the government our understanding, teachers are Understanding this May all fall apart because we don’t know what we’re doing. I actually think I should quit my job as a teacher and actually just go PD teachers on how to do this and how to do it in a way that’s fine for them and find the materials stop trying to reinvent the workers aren’t we do we’ve got everybody’s there’s some things you have to make like the how to use our technology video. You really do have to make that like because like a test score, the sector programme they’ve got I’m very familiar with as a teacher, but looking at before, um, but some parents are going there on Facebook, they know how to use that and they’re going Ah, um, and and I must admit, the first language learning management system LMS that I used was something called Moodle, which was very similar to Facebook. And I you I put stuff on there and send them my discs which were interactive and make it simple. Just find the Index page. That’s, you know, everything. Everything’s got Simple, no more than three clicks. That’s the big thing. So if kids are having to do five clicks test is for each assignment, the French teacher was going just do this by doing the assignment and do this. And test was panicking because she couldn’t find the assignment. And the poor man, calm down, we’ll find it. We put it in turn two instead of turn one. That was a really easy mistake. But of course, at home and I have a child who’s really, really wants to do well at school. So for her, it’s a bit of a so so that’s what happens. You know, there’s anxiety for all sorts of reasons and the most important things to bring the anxiety down.

 

 

Yeah.

 

Bryn 

Yeah, the more the more the higher the anxiety, the

 

 

the less you learn doesn’t matter. Because the

 

Bryn 

opportunity here for us to understand more how different people learn and unlock that because Can I Do this podcast through Brexit the education system, but it is one person front of room method out. Yeah, first class classroom full of kids that I was, I was really lucky. And because there was a teacher, there were two teachers in my life and a name that Jill Anstey when I was nine, and 12, called Robert noble, noble helped me to understand how to revise the tests

 

 

that

 

Bryn 

unlocked the world that at that point of the world to me, because previously, I just thought, I’ll just read my book, and it’ll be in there and then I’ll go into the test and then

 

 

it will go into my head,

 

Bryn 

and it won’t and it wasn’t. So now he was like, No, no, seriously, try and find something interesting. And then try and find the key part that the point and then boil it down and then see if you can write those down without having your book open. As much as you can, and then have another look and then see it. And it really was always truly something interesting. And that, that that piece of advice there went on to me passing my common entrance at age 30, which is one of the most difficult things in the world, or done GCSEs a levels, bachelor’s degree, master’s degree, or thanks to that piece of it if I had not got that.

 

Shelley Turnbull 

Hmm. And it is amazing, amazing when you get the aha moment and it is amazing to teach as a teacher when you see the aha moment. Yeah.

 

 

Yeah, cause of

 

Bryn 

that. I was able to learn how I learned. Yeah. And then see the results. And then all of a sudden, I went from back of class in terms of grades to front of class and I was like, it just there’s

 

Shelley Turnbull 

it’s a beautiful thing. Well, I think you’ll find in this because my husband like I said, My husband’s working through the night. He’s not ternal Pay was good at a high school. But when he hit uni just went because he’d have late afternoon lectures. And he would do his assignments for the night. Because he’s a nocturnal beast. And I would suspect that some of my students will be getting out of bed at 11 o’clock in the morning. And yes, they’ll miss my live lectures, which is okay because we record them and they put them up, but I will be doing my assignment tonight, and then other kids will be getting up. But I have one student who says and she’s a brilliant student, and see this she says, I don’t work in the mornings until my says I I do work at an experimental school, by the way, so that whole industrial, like kids in straight lines, we don’t do that. It’s it is and I probably I think considering I would be the most conservative member of staff, I think I only got in because I write and so Before I look I I look I look pretty conservative but obviously something’s going on in there. That’s a little outside the box so I think I got it because everybody else is really quite hipster and funky and and normally not and but the kids are too like we have kids they can they come with their hair that you know the pink hair and then the next day they come with it shaved and they do have a kind of uniform it’s they have to wear the same top but me but mostly is it’s there. The first thing we prioritise is the children’s mental health. So this says to me, I cannot work this morning. I actually listen to that. And the fact is, is that I and I have said to her, I knew but but you produce, so I’m happy to receive that. She does. She produces all the assignments. They are always top class. She doesn’t work well in the morning, I said but you have to do something to make it look like gum. At least Make forcing you to engage, you know, so that everybody else doesn’t pull the same trick. So it is very much a negotiation, and I negotiate all my assignments. Generally, because I’m new at this school, the kids have not been courageous enough to really take that on board. Especially the old ones, the young ones have the younger ones go are because I go read my criteria first, which forces them to read the criteria, because kids don’t read assessment criteria, you put a number at the end, and they don’t even know what you’ve given them the number for they just know, the average or bad. But if I say if you read the criteria, and you go, if I do this, this, this and this, it gets the criteria here. So it teaches them some negotiation skills. It teaches them to read the criteria, and it teaches them that I just want those criteria assessed. So if I’m looking at your technical skills, your literacy technical skills, you’re obviously going to have to write something spot, if I’ve said you have to make me, you know, write me a story, and you really want to do a newspaper article on such and such, well, it’s up for negotiation, as long as my criteria are good. So it is very much, you know, and the younger ones have like, I gave them an assessment before we went away, which was a group assessment. So that kind of got an orator. But by this stage, my students are going, Oh, can we do it this way? Can we do it this way? Can we do it this way? Can we do it this way? Yes, of course, you can do that way. Most definitely. An English that’s quite easy, because English is a skill base subject. But I still think there’s lots of room for negotiation in in other subjects. So and also one of the best ways that is actually getting the kids to build the assessment. So from the beginning, right, we were going to learn this In this what do you think will be a good assessment to to to assess which is actually getting easier in classroom? Very hard to do that online? Yes, there’s 24 Kids 28 Kids shop and some of them haven’t gotten up yet. So

 

Bryn 

what have you worried with learning about yourself in this Coronavirus, disrupted environment?

 

Shelley Turnbull 

Ah, that would be hard to say because I probably already pre learned those things as far as the coronas as a as a parent. I it’s probably probably keeping up again, keeping on top of the exercise. That would be the big one, because I write and now I’m sitting in front of the computer teaching whereas I would do my writing and then I would go and, you know, I don’t sit down at school. Yes, they just circle aka shark, you know, making sure that they’re not on Roblox and Clash of Clans which is like that that was so last year, but Roblox and Minecraft, which is, the thing is, is they can put rope, both of those because they’re really good maths learning tools so but not my not my class buddy. But yes, so so I don’t sit down at school so I get a lot of paces going, whereas now it’s moving from writing time because that’s what I do first thing and then moving into teaching. And so getting up and making sure I move is a big one. Yeah and making sure that test moves and making sure that we walk the dogs and making sure everybody everybody’s getting their exercise which is good. Because I heard on the radio, they’re predicting that we’re going to put on 30 million kilos as a nation over this. So as long as it’s not all on me, I’m good. I’m on a couple of those, but not all of them.

 

Bryn 

Was it Cuz give me a lot of people that come out pregnant or looking. Oh,

 

Shelley Turnbull 

that’s probably gonna be a big one. Yes. Generation Corona. Like the babies that are all born next year next year. And yeah, the caronian That’s right. Yeah. And yes, well, one thing so that definitely will be the next generation. So

 

Bryn 

what was one of the things you do is grounded deployment?

 

Shelley Turnbull 

grounded? I see that’s never been a pursuit of mine. Yeah, no, I I think you’re one of the things you asked me is that there on the surveys talk about and mine is very much. I have this personal philosophy that happiness is the pursuit of discomfort. It is not the pursuit of comfort which we have you know, if I had more money, if I was better looking if I had more all the right things happening for me, then I’d be happy. And I’d like to think that it’s the opposite I think we’re moving. So it’s actually things like this I love I’m in you know, if the car breaks down I have said to test, you know, he can’t have a story unless something goes wrong. So you can’t like if I tell this this is my big thing because I have there’s two things I took it because he knew seven and I’m sorry it really is stereotypical, but boys right all the action stuff and I don’t care and it’s not the action that I don’t care about is the character so they have you know, the opens with the guy falling out of the aeroplane and and his parachute not opening him and landing in the forest and suddenly nine ninjas jump on him. And at no point and it’s that that’s all great fun, but it’s not no point has this character made a decision has they decided something have I engaged with the character. There’s a lot of action going on and no character involvement and goes have this Their eyes met across the room. He asked her out, she asked him out, they went out. They were, like great boyfriend and girlfriend and then they grew up and got married. and I both ways I’m like, you have to have characters you love and you have to put them through a problem. And once you go through this problem, make the problem bigger and it’s gonna get worse. So not only does the character have to fall out of the aeroplane, he has got to come to the I’m just gonna pull the ripcord. No, there’s no about how am I gonna I’m going to aim for the trees. I’m going to do something. I’m going to save my life. So I’m going to get on myself. So at least I’ve got a softer landing, bounce Bounce Bounce through the trees. Okay, I’m gonna get out of the forest. Oh, no, he come the ninjas. That’s far more interesting. So you’ve got to have fights, but this is not a problem people this is an adventure. And you will like you say what stories come out of it. Okay, you will learn lots about yourself. And so that part To be adventure, but I bet and that’s what I teach my daughter, we push you discomfort, do something that scares you a little bit. So like this year while she was still 11, and it was great because people will roll for you like they did. She bungee jumped, we were in Cannes, she jumped. She went bungee jump. She was scared. She was shaking, she walked up the top, but she was already prepared for this because her hobby is trapeze. So, you know, I’ve said what is gonna make you a little bit uncomfortable and you get to choose what makes you uncomfortable, you get to do risk. So when real risks come along, that you don’t get to choose, you’re actually equipped for them. So, yeah, so like getting a book, writing a book is a risk. And it doesn’t sound like it’s not you know, obviously nine inches aren’t going to come and attack me in my office but the risk of putting your ideas out there and people thinking you’re rubbish. And then you’ve got to put it you got to take it up a notch and put it out there to someone because your friends will tell you good Your mother thinks you’re wonderful. My mother thinks I’m wonderful. And they be you have to put it out there and get it edited like that. And that is the first step people if you want to write, don’t give it to somebody professional until you’ve had it edited by somebody who doesn’t care about you. So you’ve got it, put it in the hands of someone who will tell you it’s shocking. You’re not going to get this published. They will do it very nicely, but learn to read between the lines because they will tell you what you do well, because they want your money because you pay them for doing it. But simultaneously, they will also and I did have one on this book who went Oh, no, not and she literally wrote. Oh, no, not another mode stuff. Please. You’ve got way too many because I had them coming out of the woods, literally. And she went it’s just too much pare back and I had and I wish I’d done that before because the first time I sent a book off, it wasn’t this one. The ride went Yeah, you’ve got pretty good editors and you’ve got a pretty good start, but your dialogue is just way too loaded. You’re You’re obviously getting Yeah, you’re trying to make make it stilted. So I went right, right people like that obviously after she broke my heart. But when an editor you pay for comes back and says it won’t work and and I had someone say it won’t sell, it won’t sell. I went okay and it won’t sound she told me because of the premise of it. It wasn’t because my writing was bad accounts and when and then and I must admit, this was an editor who was American and Americans are the initial premise where I started with the initial chapter. I got that because there’s a bit too many bum jokes on YesI really in touch with my inner child. And and but the Brits aren’t so squeamish and Australians aren’t so squeamish. I mean, we have Andy Griffith for goodness sakes, you know, and and, you know, Tim winter by the logs, the bumpy so that’s tempting, isn’t it? So, you know, Australians and the Brits aren’t aren’t too worried about autumn jokes for children, but she, she said it won’t sell and I thought I can’t take that on board. But what she was telling me was not for reasons that I went well because it not cause it’s crap. And so and because I said that the monster in the monster who wasn’t in the UK, I sent it to UK agent and I and again, I took a risk I had the list and I know how many times Am I willing to hear the word no. That’s what I went in with. How many times Am I willing to hear the word know before I give up? And I went on sign the line and somebody put that on a website. Take because it’s all out there. Don’t think of giving up till you had 80 rejections don’t give up to your head 100 and then write the next book. And so I went in with ik I made I had a list of about 60 and seriously the first week I like no, no, no, no, no. I went If I’m going to get told no this often and this frequently, I want to get told no by people I really want to get told no by. So I made a list of impossibles people that I knew would never take me on board as a client. And my agent is one of them. Yeah, so I had my list of impossibles. And she was number two. Number one. She was number one, Katherine, you were number one. So and I seriously it was just because I’ve gone through this process of really putting getting it out there beforehand. So people go I have this amazing, like, cuz literally from the time I started looking from an agent to the one, I got the one I wanted, it was three weeks, which is like unheard of. But it’s because I got all of the you are crap, you are rubbish. This isn’t going to work for the two years beforehand. Whereas I didn’t go straight to the agent. I went through a process of and even then she went to the email she sent back to me was this doesn’t work this time. Doesn’t work, this doesn’t work. This doesn’t work. This doesn’t work. This doesn’t work. This doesn’t work. But this is all fixable. And basically, also, I think that’s my interview, how thick skinned are you? Because if you can get through the all my list of what doesn’t work and you still want to talk to me, then we may have future. And she is a machine. She is terrifying. So she says, Have they done this? I’m going to talk to these people. I’m thinking I’m so glad you’re working for me. And she’s, she’s brilliant. She’s really brilliant. She’s on my impossibles list and pletely could not believe I thought I was getting one of those email scams when she replied, she was going to ask me for a million Nigerian dollars or something. So

 

 

the last question I ask all my guests tonight, is

 

Bryn 

if you could take one nugget and uploaded to the collective consciousness right now, so we all just get it

 

 

Ah

 

Shelley Turnbull 

Gosh. Um, I got it’s so trite but it is it just be kind Be kind to yourself and be kind to other people work on the assumption that most people most people are actually doing their best. So so in this situation the current situation the parents who are sending the teachers the panicked email are doing the best the fact that they’re contacting you and saying this, the teachers that are pulling this stuff online and doing their best This is new to them. The kids are doing their best most of them and and the ones that aren’t you you kind of know the ones that aren’t because they didn’t before but there’s a lot that I have got that have gone silent and I know it’s because they’re probably sitting somewhere in a corner, biting their nails thinking that I’m really disappointed with them. And and that’s a really huge thing in class how often kids are waiting for me to be doing disappointed with them and I’m thinking that’s really kind of an awful place to be but your first assumption is that that’s what I’m thinking when you tell me you don’t understand something or you can’t get some and I tell them this this is it is not it is not smart people who don’t ask questions the kids that never get anything and the ones in the back of the room going I don’t get it. But if I tell them I don’t get it, I’ll look dumb. Whereas the really kid that’s getting all the best marks is the kiss that kid that asked me nine things. Yeah, now it’s not an end it’s the kid that argues with me. I will often say when the first thing that argues immediately are your my a student, I can tell which makes them go up. alone I’m on I’m allowed to argue and argue not fight. Very big difference behind and be kind to yourself and worry about your mental health before you worry about anything else most important thing in the situation. Just be kind to yourself. Be kind to your children be kind to their teachers. Be kind to everybody cause as you know, and it’s an aphorism everybody has a story. You know, even the people are taking four packs of toilet paper. You know, they’re panicking. And you got you know, I did did say to my husband during that situation, I don’t know why toilet paper because I I was behind that I was behind them. The eight ball obviously, when we’re talking about China not giving us toilet paper. I said I’d be stocking up on rice and lentils because, you know, not a lot of space to drive. He came home with about 10 tins of lentils. And I was thinking Hmm, not quite what I mean. But yes, so we’ve got lots of rice and lentils and we are we are okay. And it was funny. I was down to my last roll of toilet paper, went to the shops and there was four, there were four bags, and I took one and we still we’re still in toilet paper.

 

 

So

 

 

you know pleasure talking to you.

 

Shelley Turnbull 

Thank you. You too. This has been fun. I don’t get to talk about myself so much.

 

Bryn 

If people want to come and find it, where can they find you?

 

 

Oh,

 

Shelley Turnbull 

I don’t know. Isn’t that terrible? Um, I don’t have a website. I have Twitter. I’m TC Shelly on one. And then there’s, um, obviously the first one on Twitter. I MTC Shelly on Facebook, please come and say hello. I had I had one lady who because I think I don’t know if you can. I will follow you back. I’m really

 

 

yeah, follow me and I will follow you. We will get lost together.

 

Shelley Turnbull 

But yeah, I had some lovely lady from Queensland. So I’ve read the book ahead of my kids. And I’m kind of so thrilled because I want I want my stories to be something that adults the adult, the child grows into the adult and still wants to read so and still goes oh, there was something else there for me. I know how Have lots of adult jokes. And I mean, you know jokes that adults will get no adult jokes. So, I do have Twitter. I do have Facebook. I don’t have a website. I know I should know how to build them, but I still don’t have one. I just have too many ideas of what I want to do and then I get overwhelmed. So

 

Bryn 

thanks. Thank you.

Leave a Comment