#152 – Who Really Am I? – Chris Jackson

Go further into considering just who you really are with business coach Chris Jackson.

Chris explains how he takes clients deep into themselves, connecting with their soul, in order to truly align their life direction, business and relationships to their true purpose and identity.

This conversation goes super deep super quick, as Chris and I explore consciousness, our connection to something bigger than ourselves and what the current changing environment is teaching us about our identity.

Chris makes what could be a confronting conversation really approachable and will leave the listener considering just what else there is to learn about yourself.

Read Full Transcript

Bryn 

Hello and welcome back to WA Real. I’m your host, Bryn Edwards. WA Real follows the oldest form of learning that of listening to the stories of those around us their stories and experience. Why is that because it was within those stories that we capture that you can find your true self and your actual own truth.

Today, I have the great privilege of speaking to Chris Jackson. Chris, welcome to the show.

 

Chris Jackson 

Thank you, Bryn. It’s an absolute honour and a privilege to be here and I’m looking forward to going as deep as we possibly can. I’m excited.

 

Bryn 

This is what we do. This is what we do. So first off, just because it’s called WA Real. Can you just give us an overview of your relationship with Western Australia? I believe you have a car.

 

Chris Jackson 

I do. It’s five to my uncle’s house. He lives in Halina Valley. So I I’m currently in Hobart in Tasmania after a big bit of a solid But I’ve spent the 11 years living in Perth from about 2007 through to 2019. I moved over to Bali. And so I’ve been living in Bali for the last year and a half on myself down here in Hobart. During this Coronavirus period of time I found myself getting stuck in between all the madness, with flights being cancelled and Bali being shut down so, so I’m here for now but I’ve had a I’ve had a significant period of time of my life span in Perth. It’s it’s very, very dear to my heart and I’ve got a lot of family and friends that are all there and I’m literally across the ocean in Bali. So

 

Bryn 

what is it about Western Australia that makes it dear to your heart?

 

Chris Jackson 

It’s funny when I originally moved from Tasmania, back in 2007, I originally moved to who to follow the mining boom. So I graduated as an engineer, mechanical engineer straight out of uni. The mining booms kicking off there’s great money to be made. So I yeah, I was it was great. But a lot of my family they live in, in Perth is still there. And so it’s like a second. It’s like a second home from Tasmania. To me, it always has been. So it’s it’s a bigger version of Tasmania, bigger countries now. And, and I just loved it. I love the culture. I love the ocean. I just it was just something about the place that I always always knew I was going to move there after Tasmania. So I’d set myself up there with an engineering career and it just all fell into place. I got relocated to Perth to work in the mining industry. And then it was it was a bit of a it was a bit of a dream come true. To move into the money.

 

Bryn 

She pulls you in and dies it happens

 

Chris Jackson 

and then 11 years goes by like so quickly. And and it’s been it’s been amazing. So many amazing close, beautiful humans in Perth. It will always be Eloise be a home for me. Always

 

Bryn 

sending got a unique energy. Oh, it certainly does. It is

 

Chris Jackson 

It’s to me coming from Tasmania. Perth is like it was like a big city. It was like the big snake.

 

Bryn 

Yeah, that’s funny, isn’t it?

 

Chris Jackson 

It’s funny, but I mean, obviously Melbourne in Sydney that would be like the ultimate Big Smoke but for me Perth was like a really nice intermediate space where it’s still big enough so for someone coming from tazzy purse like big city, I remember when I first got to Perth, walking around for the Perth foreshore you know, we’re, you know, just going to the beaches, you know, city beaches. Wow, oh my god, this is like Hollywood. This is like, this is like Hollywood. And, and it’s, you know, it’s like, even to this day, I still, I still have the contrast of Perth seeming like a really big place compared with my hometown. So for me, personally a big place and a lot of people in Perth feel like artists a country town, Melbourne and Sydney, Sydney, that’s where all the action is happening. But for me, Perth is where the action was compared where I’ve come from, so yeah,

 

Bryn 

excellent. So I would probably describe your work Being more of a deeper conscious business coach, Coach, how do you describe the work that you do?

 

Chris Jackson 

Yeah, I, what I do in terms of this is the outcome. And there’s the process, I’ll start with the outcome, what the outcome of what I do is I help people get connected to what I call the this soul’s expression, the true expression of why they really here in LA. Yeah, and, and what that means is actually getting clear on who are they really who and what are they, and what’s really important to them. And if I could do anything that I wanted in life, that’s the most not the most magnificent in terms of grandiose or Gallic. But if they could do anything that’s truly authentic to them. Well, what is that in their heart, and then helping them get out of their own way, and tap into all of the skill, the knowledge, the wisdom that’s already available inside of them to be able to be the highest expression of that within them. So that’s my truth. Passion is helping them create that result, which usually is them either starting a business or being more successful in their business or in some cases, selling a business ditching it and moving into something totally different.

 

Bryn 

Or in some cases, that

 

Chris Jackson 

means leaving a career and starting a new career in some cases, you know, whatever it is in a random relationship or their health, it’s, it’s following their soul’s calling, and it looks different for different people. But, but yeah, that that involves helping people let go of the delusions and illusions of their mind, letting go of limiting beliefs, allowing their identity to completely transformed. And what comes with that is a is a is a new liberation is a level of freedom of expression that they discover within themselves, that they knew in their heart that they had, but they just didn’t know how to access. So that’s the that’s the gift that I’m privileged to be able to guide people and support people to have on a daily basis, which I just feel like I’ve got the best job in the world and gotta help people support them on that journey.

 

Bryn 

It’s interesting because there’s words that you’ve used there, let’s get let’s pull a few out like soul, heart authenticity that you wouldn’t normally hear from a business coach. So and you know, it’s easy for us to easy for a business coach to talk about have a purpose and then let’s align the strategic part the strategic direction of this and let’s make funnels and marketing and sales and stuff like that. Yeah, you’re actually taking people further to the back into themselves almost by set up to that existential identity level. And how how how would you go about that? Because a lot of people that scary shit, right, it’s really scary shit. And it’s like, well, no, I just want my business coach to tell me about funnels and crap like that, right? Yeah. And how I can TEDx my business and bank accounts and stuff like that. And so it can be very external focused. How do you get you? How’d you get this across to clients in the first place?

 

Chris Jackson 

Yeah. Well, it’s funny you say that because that’s what I used to do. I used to have a very concise, like a very traditional business coaching and consulting model, where it’s very much all about, right? What’s the profit? What’s the result? What’s the strategy, and I used to do that net, and I used to like doing that. But then eventually, I started to realise that people would hit the wall,

 

Bryn 

people would get there.

 

Chris Jackson 

And no amount of financial success. Now amount of people achieving their goals actually contributed to genuine fulfilment. It just didn’t change. And so so yeah, the question of that, you know, how do you help people get there? It’s like, Well, the reason why the reason why it’s important to actually help people get there is because if someone doesn’t really know who they really are, then you’re building on shaky ground. You’re building On on sand you’re not holding on foundation. So, so I have these conversations on a daily basis with a lot of business owners who, I asked them why they’re doing what they’re doing. And I don’t, I don’t really know why. It’s habit yet. It’s conditioning, and everybody else is doing it. Yeah, totally everyone else is doing it, why don’t while everyone else is doing it and, and so that that is the the core of what I do. And that’s the most important thing for anyone I believe, to ask themselves is, if you don’t know who you are, what you are, then how could you possibly have any level of certainty or confidence about the degree of alignment or resonance with what you’re truly creating because you haven’t really questioned or tested it? So yeah, I go pretty deep with my clients because I’ve I’ve done the opposite where I’ve just gone I’ve helped someone get the result without asking why. And it’s climbing a ladder,

 

 

leaning up against the wrong wall.

 

Chris Jackson 

That’s that’s really what it’s doing. I’m not in the business of doing that anymore I’ve done that. And my soul is in this journey to help people towards authentic success towards true aligned success not just something that’s perpetuating a habit or a decision that their ego made many many decades ago or years ago. I’m not in that game I mean the game of helping someone awaken to their true nature and help them to be the highest expression so that’s

 

 

that’s what I get really pumped about.

 

Bryn 

Yeah, so you use the words soul there, what does soul mean for Chris?

 

Chris Jackson 

soul for me means my, the highest energetic expression of me. So behind the this matrix, I I’m talking about there is a an expression, there’s some sort of energetic expression that is connecting to consciousness. And so it’s like a it’s like an avatar. It’s like there’s there’s my soul which is barking behind the scenes saying go Chris. Let’s Let’s do that. Let’s express that so it’s got its own. It’s got its own journey going on and I’m, I’m representing it in this video. And I’m beaming my consciousness back through it. And it’s beaming that consciousness back to its it’s like the droplet se of consciousness. So it’s all contributing back towards this ocean of consciousness of which my soul is a is a conduit of channelling that information in that consciousness and then I’m avatar I’m, I’m Chris who’s playing out this role who’s having his own challenges in his own struggles in his own story, which is a multi dimensional being existing across a whole lot of different lifetimes. And it’s all feeding back to the same source but I’m experiencing life as Chris right now, which is my greatest ever love story. And, and my soul is barking behind the scenes, just lapping it all up watching this amazing movie unfold

 

Bryn 

suit. So you know that I’m loving that. And this is the sort of conversation that I sort of pull people into. And more and more and more through what I do with why real and just who I am. And what are some of the barriers that you see in people to actually even engage with that level of being existence thinking and feeling. Because, you know, somebody could listen to that and almost go freaking out, you know, stick a stick across around his neck and put a black robe on him. And he’s, he’s preaching at the front of the church. And there’s a whole lot of stigma around it. So what are some of the barriers you see when you know, because this is, I’ve always said that it’s incumbent upon every individual to consider who they are for at least 20 minutes a day. Right? And I’ve long felt that long before the podcast, but trying to get that across to people say, Oh, you’re just going down the whoo hole down the rabbit hole. Some of the barriers that you see there

 

Chris Jackson 

from people getting into this stuff. Yeah, well, I think what we’re up against here with this conversation is people are living in a paradigm where they don’t really see value in it. I think that’s the thing. That’s really the starting point is people have never really seen value in it. Because most people are limited in their understanding about reality. They limited in an understanding about psychology and true spirituality, not, not the spirituality that we get taught in religion, that a true spirituality, which is the essence of this human experience is a spiritual experience in its true nature. And so unfortunately, there’s a lot of contamination that goes on inside people’s mind where they, they mistake, the contemplation of what the true self is and what who we really are as some kind of woowoo fanciful ideology that has no relevance or no value So So Australia when people are living in a world where they feel like, well, that’s a that’s just a meaningless issue, why would you ask that you’re just going to chase your tail. And some people do. Some people are misguided in their contemplation themselves and they can get themselves caught up and tied up in knots. But when we have a true paradigm for the exploration of the self, it’s a beautifully liberating and empowering, evolution and awakening. And it’s a loving expansive expression rather than this huge file rumination. Alright, so so that I think

 

Bryn 

about some navel gazing exercise. Yeah,

 

 

yeah. So he has

 

Chris Jackson 

a lot of misunderstandings that people bring to this contemplation in the first place. So, so they’re not even asking that they don’t even they’re not even considering the question of who am I and what am I from a place that’s even going to lead them towards a meaningful discovery because of the misunderstandings and because of the false paradigm through which they’re asking the question. From so that they caught up in a misunderstanding in the first place, which means they’ll never get to truth in the first place, they’ll literally it’s like a carnival of mirrors where they’re looking at a mirror in another mirror. And so they’re never gonna get anywhere because they haven’t corrected some fairly fundamental misunderstandings about reality. So, so that’s I mean, that’s a big gains in it, we can take it deeper but, but that’s the starting point is they don’t know they don’t know.

 

 

And I find that

 

Bryn 

we bought when we go out, we start to explore the world and we go out and go out and and our attention is always outside and our senses are their focus using an inner senses that focus out to the outside world. And this is just bringing it back in, you know, as we as creators, how are we going about creating this reality? And I think, to to, to get that point across it, we are actually fundamentally co creating what’s going on around us and then And then put that across to somebody. It’s got to be kidding, like, just happening at me and to me.

 

Chris Jackson 

Yeah. And then and that’s if someone’s living in that paradigm, then they will live their life of it as if it’s true. Yeah, that’s that’s the nature of belief. You know, that’s, that’s what, that’s what the that’s what our civilization used to believe. They used to believe the earth was flat, you know, so if they lived in that paradigm, and they then lived or suffered the consequences of believing and buying into that. And, and by the same token, everyone in life will, will literally buy into their own beliefs and they will then carry out living, then creating results in their life as if whatever they believe is true. So, so yeah, people, if someone believes that life happens to them, if they believe that they have no, absolutely no influence whatsoever in their life, and they just believe that they are a victim or they’re disempowered or you know that that’s just the way the life is. Well, they probably will. Never ask deeper questions to become empowered to realise that maybe the opposite is true. So,

 

Bryn 

so yeah, unless I find, unless the it’s almost like, sometimes I find it I don’t know, if you notice this, and I’m interested in your view, sometimes we’re given as as points of awareness. They’re here to explore and expand and, and, and go and learn stuff. We’re always given the free will to go and explore stuff. But if we sit still and absolutely don’t, then it’s almost like a wave or come up behind you and force you off to go and do that. And that’s when all of a sudden you know, you can find that after a nice stable relationship in a nice stable career. After 1520 years. All of a sudden, the wife’s left you and you’ve been sacked from a job and you sit there going well that facts happened. And it’s like cosmically all make sense. It’s like you’re getting way too comfortable sitting there. And we put you here as a node of awareness to go and learn and explore, not to just sit and do nothing

 

Chris Jackson 

100% hundred percent we will, we will get the wake up call from life. As soon as we stop growing and expanding and challenging ourselves, by our own choice, life will generally tend to give us a bit of a nudge and say, Well, he go, Yeah, you’ve kind of taken your foot off the pedal a little bit, I’m gonna remind you about, you know, this whole idea of growth and expansion and learning and awareness. So, and that’s, I know that’s happened to you in previous relationships. It’s happened to me as well, you know, I went through a relationship breakdown when I was travelling in South America, and I’ve got a huge wake up call a massive wake up call, I was completely passive aggressive, completely non self aware, arrogant, and innocently so but just completely delusional about my lack of self awareness and my and the impact of my me and my relationship. So so you That relationship came crashing down. And then what ensued or what, what I was gifted with after that was a massive wake up call and a massive awakening for getting into personal development and, and asking these deeper questions and challenges. I was in an engineering job at the time. And that caused me to really question What the hell am I doing in a job that I really don’t care about. And so beautiful awakening that that happened. And that occurred because of that little nudge that that life gave me

 

Bryn 

as the best thing that’s ever happened to me. And I think that it’s in those stories of an underlying process the way that you know, the true meaning of the word awakening starts to come about. So it’s like, oh, I was asleep in this zone. I like to refer to it as I was in a little game of hide and seek with myself. See where I’m going. And then all of a sudden, all the game, the game’s over, because the bigger mayors come and found me

 

 

The that indeed.

 

Chris Jackson 

That’s precisely what happened was, it was almost like, Yeah, I’d fallen asleep. And and I was gifted with this opportunity to wake up from the nightmare. Like it really was a nightmare, but I had no idea I was even in a nightmare until the wake up and it’s like, wow, how do we get here?

 

Bryn 

Yeah, yeah. And so out of the clients that come to see you, how many of them are sort of doing it consciously and how many of them have had that big like slap that tells you to come and secret?

 

Chris Jackson 

Well, it’s, it’s always a bit of both. You see, there’s always pain mixed with pleasure. You know, there’s, there’s always a bit of both, and I’m one of my mentors vision like Eonni. He talks about this as the two concepts one’s called kensho and Satori, Satori, meaning growth, fire, insight, and kensho, meaning growth via pain and absolute suffering, and so they is these two concepts? Which Yeah, yeah, you can grow in a, in a, in a comfortable, proactive sense. Or you can wait for life to slap you around, you can pick one of the two, the clients that I tend to work with, it’s usually a bit of both, but it’s mostly the clients that are initiating their own transformations. Clients are usually on, they’re already on the way they’re wanting to surf the wave better faster. So it’s usually tends to be people that are more forward thinking. But every now and then, yeah, I get people that are in chaos, and they, you know, they’ve had their slap and then they’re in a lot of pain. And both

 

Bryn 

I am through the podcast, I I like to listen to people’s stories. And then I don’t know whether it’s because of the way I’m wired. And you know, I can go through like 1020 episodes, and all of a sudden I sit back one night I think, ah, I can start sailing pattern here that’s underneath. You know, it’s like, and I’m firmly of the of the knowing rarely rather than believing nowadays have sort of, you know, demonstrated it myself I do the podcast that there is almost like this process that runs underneath. That’s an evolutionary process. And then on top of it, we have these subjective experiences in the work that you do have you have you noticed any key parts of the process on the way into a greater understanding of people’s identity that you can chat? Yeah,

 

Chris Jackson 

look, there’s so much to it, I guess to begin with, I would say most people’s experience of life and the results that they create. It’s like the metaphor of what people experience in the moment is like the crest of a wave. It’s literally like a wave that’s crashing, it’s tumbling. It’s doing its own thing. But the cause of that is far deeper below the ocean. It’s a far deeper, more cosmic, geological, natural process that’s going on underneath. And then the consequences that people are left with is the the thought or the emotion or the experience or the the role. Relationship breakdown. That’s the that’s the consequence as a result of a far deeper structure. And the key thing here that people need to get to, in order to, you know, transform their life will be empowered to understand where all this experience is even coming from is, is understanding the self. It’s actually understanding that there is a iceberg all the way that goes nine tenths of the way below the ocean, above the tip. And that’s the, that’s where we’re going with this conversation is, is what you’re left with in your surface level experience in your life. That’s the tip of the iceberg. And if you actually want to have a hope, of influencing what you wanting to create in your life, you’ve got to go below the iceberg. You’ve got to deep deep into the coding of the mind into the understanding the architecture of the mind. A true understanding of the self is what’s truly required for someone to be empowered because otherwise they just it’s like this They’re sitting in front of a TV. And they’re watching the movie. And they’ve forgotten that they’ve pushed play. And they’re stuck in on the couch and they’re stuck transfixed watching the movie. And I don’t even know that they push play and they don’t even know actually that they’re actors. And that actually beyond all that’s a Hollywood set beyond all of that they don’t even they forgot that there are pixels of light on a screen reflecting off a screen they’ve gotten bought into this idea. So that’s what’s going on for most people.

 

Bryn 

And yeah, forget about the button forget about

 

Chris Jackson 

that. Put that movie on so long ago, they forgot that they were the ones that push play and now they’re they’re strapped in for the ride and they’re, they’re stuck watching this horror movie. Not even knowing that it’s a movie. It’s almost like they feel like they’re actors in the movie, that they’re actually part of the middle part of the film and they’re frightened is like they bought right into that illusion.

 

Bryn 

The must get some big Oh fuck moments then with people. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

 

 

Wow, that’s

 

Chris Jackson 

Yeah, that’s, that’s what I do is I help people pretty much collapse their whole entire perception of their reality. And so there is, there is an ego death that takes place with every client that I work with every client that works with me, they’re gonna go through a lot of uncomfortable experiences as they start to realise the

 

Bryn 

darkness into the abyss. And

 

Chris Jackson 

then because I’m taking them there, because that’s the that’s the place where we have to go in order to in order to build I guess the metaphor is everyone’s wanting to build a Dream High School, they want you to build a skyscraper, but if you’re building that on, on, on Rotten foundations on crack foundations, well, you know, you’re not going to go anywhere. So, so that’s my my role is to challenge someone to help them strip away the misunderstandings of their identity to help them challenge that and to help them realise who they truly are. And then now we’ve got The foundation to build upon but prior to that, where were spinning the wheels were, were pointing in the wrong direction. So that’s the, that’s what I do is I deliberately confront people to get confronted by that very thing by what actually is, Who are you? Who are you really, and it’s a beautiful process. Admittedly, it’s sometimes it’s not comfortable. But if that’s true awakening and true liberation and true self expression is when all that comes collapsing, crumbling down, and then you can rebuild on solid foundations on architected design foundations, not just the ones that you’ve inherited from, from your upbringing.

 

Bryn 

Hmm. And I’m going to use my own words it must have taken some balls to go out in the world at the start and say, This is what I’m going to do, particularly having left the engineering job. Because we were introduced and spoke the other day and I started to listen to what you do. And I suddenly thought, fuck now this is what I’m doing with A variety of other clients in different areas. And I just thought I was asking difficult questions and did a better job he got into the world and present yourself as this is what I’m doing. I’ve been doing mine by default or accident. And when did you was there a moment when you suddenly thought, this is it? This is what I got to go.

 

Chris Jackson 

Oh, yeah, happen by stages? Oh, look, there were a few stages. I’ll give you the key stages. I mean, the first, the first phase was when my relationship broke down in South America. That was my big wake up call. And then I started work on this. slap you around. Wake up, Chris. I go back to Perth. And I went back to work in my mining job after a six month sabbatical around South America. So I’m back in engineering. And I know that the writing’s on the wall. I know I gotta find something else to do. And I’ve known decades. In fact, I knew from the very first day I studied engineering, I knew that it wasn’t for me, but I did it was that knowing where did that knowing exist in you? Because I’d love you to share that with the listeners. Yeah, well, I, I knew it in my heart. And I knew it on the first day of my engineering degree because the lecturer told me, you’re only ever going to use 5% of what you learn here when you get out in the real world. And I was like, What are you kidding me? You tell me I’m about to study a four year engineering degree. And I’m never even going to use any of this really. And and that I was disenchanted from the beginning. I thought, This is ridiculous. And I, I use my ego, to fuel myself to study a degree that I didn’t even want to study to get a job that I didn’t even want to work in. to then go through 11 was close to what was it? I spent four years in a degree then another nine years working. So what’s that? That’s 30 years in that industry. Knowing in my heart, I really have no interest in it’s like, like genuinely no interest I have interested in earning money and supporting myself and feeling financial security, but I don’t I don’t give a shit about engineer. I really don’t. And, and I really didn’t. And then I wondered why it was always difficult waking up on a Monday morning going to work. I wondered why I celebrated when I got to a Friday afternoon when it came to be a time I wondered why the weekend was so precious and so scarce and then the rest of my week was so shit. Right? And, and then I realised it afterward, only afterwards, I realised, I’m in the wrong game.

 

 

I’m following something that

 

Chris Jackson 

my soul has absolutely no interest in, like really doesn’t want to bar off. And, and I know that might be a bit of a stretch for some people to think you know, how well you know how to you know what, what was really there for you. And I actually do look back on my journey and I see that as, as all of it was a blessing every every single minute of that, that engineering journey when I knew I was out of alignment that that got like, it gives me so much gratitude now to have spent so long doing something that I knew as well. way out of alignment, that drives my passion that gives me such a deep contrast to not only love what I do now, but also be so passionate about helping other people discover the same thing. So that was a that was a negative imprint in my life, that that just gives me so much inspiration. So like I could, I could talk on this subject and I can share on this subject eternally for days on end in navigating, because I care so much about helping people realise for themselves that they can wake up and not have to go down spending 40 years of their life working in a career that they don’t like to someday retire, to then finally start living their life and living their purpose. So, so, so yeah, so that

 

Bryn 

they were the two key things at the start. And then what about actually going out into the world

 

Chris Jackson 

or going into the world I then I actually started studying personal development. I started studying a lot of, I guess you’d say leadership, personal development or taking a lot of course, and I’ve been stumbled across coaching. And and what I mean by coaching is a Facebook ad popped up. Would you ever consider this like it’s basically become a life you want to become a life coach, you know, Facebook has the habit of just sending you stuff that somehow you’re interested in. And I was like, hmm, there could be something to that. So I jumped on a call with the guy on the ad. And before we know it, a week later, I was on Route enrolled in a life coaching course. And then I went to the first three days of my life coaching course. And on the third day, I knew it. I knew in my heart, I knew that I discovered it. This is what I’m here for. This is it. This is the thing that I’ve been looking for my whole life, which is a career that I had didn’t even know where it was gonna lead me to. All I knew was this skill set this conversation about human behaviour and consciousness and personal development and people being empowered to actually choose the life they want. I didn’t know where I was going to go but that I knew I got to follow this. So I kept buying it kept studying it. I was doing pro bono Coaching coaching people for free. I was coaching a when I could get my hands on to share this knowledge with to refine my skills. And then eventually I found someone who would actually pay me for it was I did probably about 100 hours of coaching for free. before eventually, I had the confidence or belief to actually charge money for it. And then I eventually found a client who would pay me money for and I was like, You beauty I can actually earn money from this. And then that’s when the whole thing shifted. That’s when about that’s when about probably two months later, I went into my engineering job to renegotiate my contract. My boss wasn’t there that day. So I thought, Oh, nevermind. I’ll go home and come back the next day. On the drive home. I decided I’m going to end my engineering career. I just decided in that moment, I realised if I can get one client, I can I can get 20 I can get 100 like even 1000. And so in that moment, I decided that’s it. engineering career down. I turned my back on a whole 13 year career, and I had no idea where it was going to go. But I knew in my heart, I knew at the deepest level inside of me all of my intuition was saying, yep, this is this is where you’re at. And then it’s been a crazy journey of a sense ups and downs and moments of chaos and fearing of like a lot of fear of failure and going through financial chaos and needing to sell a home and all this kind of stuff in order to bankroll my journey, but it’s all been the most, it’s been the greatest love story ever. And, and so there’s been so much that happened, so many beautiful experiences, and it’s now it’s now what 2020 I started that coaching, training back in 2015. So it’s been just under five years, and I’ve managed to completely transition I’ve managed to more than replace what I used to earn in engineering. I’m now working doing what I love. And I wake up every day, just browsing online. Life just absolutely blissed out, knowing that I’m the one I’m like, What did I do to get be so fortunate? Like, what do you got? Was there a past life that I get now rewarded? I get to live my dream that’s the level of gratitude that I get to do some

 

Bryn 

serious walking through shit to get this one.

 

Chris Jackson 

Totally. But it’s Jesus. It’s it’s been a it’s been a tough gig. I tell you, it’s been tough. Like, like, creating an engineering career is one thing. But leaving that to create my business, that’s been the hardest thing I’ve ever had to do in my entire life, the most challenging the most scary pool to talk about having to figure shit out and figure it out quickly. And, and baptism of fire tell you that what a journey.

 

 

Awesome, awesome. If we go,

 

Bryn 

just a bit broader out of your story. And out of that, and the clients. You talked earlier on about Was it kensho and Satori and Kenzo been coming out to the pain. How much of that do you See at the moment with this bigger broader environment that we seem to be walking in this disrupted Coronavirus?

 

Chris Jackson 

I love this what what’s actually happening at a broader level is people are being confronted with the life’s biggest fears. People have I mean, the ultimate fear is the fear of annihilation. Yes. I mean that that’s the ultimate fear of a human is the fear of death, the fear of annihilation, but even the most subtle version of that is, is people’s sense of self dying, not just physical death, but their actual sense of self dying. So we’re talking about ego death, we’re talking about the annihilation of their own identity. And so what’s happening here is people are being confronted with the death of their, their apparent self, whether it be that business might be going bankrupt or their career might be literally being completely eradicated. You know, you look at companies like Airbnb and Uber and the sorts of companies that have been that are coming in and radicalising the earth as well as now we’ve obviously got locked downs we’ve got governments making all sorts of crazy decisions and there’s there’s just chaos and there’s a lot of there’s so much uncertainty that what’s been brought up in people is their biggest fears.

 

 

And so, when people talk about

 

Chris Jackson 

how you’re feeling I’m stressed or anxious. That’s what fear is. Fear is stress and anxiousness. It is they’re afraid You know, that’s the fear is the sorry stress is the achievers word for being afraid and so that’s what everyone right now including myself has been confronted with at a deeper level is Geez, what if this whole economy just goes tits up? What if my business goes bankrupt? What if? What if world war three kicks off? What like what what if what if what if and all Some This is going on in people’s mind, which is on imagine that it’s a use of the imagination or beard and unresolvable use of the imagination, but it’s still going on. And so what’s actually going on for people is they’re being confronted by their life’s biggest fears. And they’re being confronted with asking some deeper soul searching questions, which key What is my life really about? What do I really want to create? What am I creating? And how much of my life is actually in alignment? How much in my life if this was all go tits up? How much of this amazing opportunity to make the most up? Because these are the golden years? Right? These have been the golden years. And now there’s, there’s this threat. There’s this invisible threat, whether you want to call it changes to into government legislation or viruses or artificial intelligence or the next, you know, the next third world war, whatever threat we want to consider. People are now being confronted more than ever With their own insecurities and their own sense of self, and so, so yeah, people being confronted by their limiting beliefs by their aspirations they have been confronted. And that’s what’s going on which I like. I like it. And the reason why I like it is because I think it’s an opportunity for people to actually expand. It’s It is one of these Wake Up Calls, which is if people aren’t going to initiate their own awakening, if people aren’t going to be the catalyst for their own growth, well, life’s gonna do it for them. Like I said earlier on the wave is going to come on, it’s coming on. Oh, it’s it’s common, whether it’s here, and you can either choose to initiate that and you can either choose to hop on hop on the wave and surfing in or you can choose to get barreled by it and choose to fight against it. So

 

Bryn 

so that’s what either way we’re all going to the base.

 

Chris Jackson 

Oh, yeah. Well, we’ll go on into show that’s for sure. You can either do it, you know, you know, in a graceful way. Or you can do it in a state of chaos.

 

Bryn 

Yeah. And what do you think, continue in that analogy? What do you think is on the beach waiting for us?

 

Chris Jackson 

Well, I think it’s actually enlightenment. I think it’s actually harmony. I like to think that the place where this is all leading is through the adversity. Through the chaos, there is a higher order structure that’s awaiting that there just is the the evolutionary process only works one way. It’s like consciousness. Just it just rises, consciousness and life just has a way of evolving to keep enhancing itself. So you’ve only got to look at history, we’re only gonna look at the anatomy of the animals and humans to see it’s an exponentially it’s an exponentially increasing process. And so, this is also going to be doing the same. It’ll either wipe us out completely which will basically level it off, or it will force a higher order for intelligence, a higher order of the civilization. So that’s what that’s what I think is going on.

 

 

Love it,

 

Bryn 

love it. I think for me at the moment, I keep seeing more and more of through through media base fear and interesting decisions made by governments and impacts on economy and subservience to economy. And things like that are starting to look around and think just how much more shitter we’re gonna take until we actually step into our own sovereignty. And that, that for me, it’s been really deep as in how deep you want to go with this sovereignty as in just how deep Do you want to go? And for me, it’s, it’s gone. Super, super deep. I mean, I’m happy to share some of the questions I’ve asked myself but It, it starts with a whole thing of looking around. And instead of getting, you know, and I’ll be honest, you know, I listen to the government narrative and then I listen to all the conspiracy theory stuff. And and I hate calling it conspiracy theory because you know, that’s a term coined by the CIA after people wanted to ask a bigger question about JFK assassination. So we’ll say alternative views. And and you can and they’re both as bad as one another. They can be really bad Finally, like because all of a sudden you got staunch pro government do what it told staunch now under any of it, I’m also here and yeah, it’s kinda like, how much shit are we actually going to continue to take? And how much subservience we’re going to take and and it’s probably a bigger, grander scale of those limiting beliefs that you’ve just talked about. Oh, yeah,

 

Chris Jackson 

you’re spot on brain. And I think a key word you just shared there that really resonates with me is sovereignty. Which is our ability to actually express our own freewill, our own and stand up for our rights to take responsibility for the contents of our own consciousness. And to to actually take responsibility for to recognise the fear that we have. And the the I guess you might call it any of the gaps in our integrity or the gaps of where our actions don’t match our intentions. Yeah, this this is very, very real these people are going to be confronted with a will what like if the government is foolish it if the government’s making incompetent decisions, will you just gonna sit there and kaput? Are you gonna stand up and you’re gonna march on the streets and you’re gonna get out there protesting with the, the tinfoil hat wearing conspiracy theorists like he is where the challenge is gonna lie, because because there is, I mean, there are two sides to every story. In fact, there’s an infinite number of sides to every story, but I think fundamentally Whether you whether you want to call it conspiracy, I agree with you. I think the word conspiracy theory devalues what we’re talking about here when we’re talking about free thinking, we’re talking about don’t have to, why don’t have the right to freedom of speech. We’re talking about the right to freedom of it like it just exploring truth. And in the fundamental

 

Bryn 

sovereignty to explore,

 

Chris Jackson 

yeah, its sovereignty to explore without any attachment to will, I’m going to ask a question, and I’m going to explore it to take it as far as I can. And I don’t need to be right. I’m just going to ask question after question. And I’m going to, of course, I’m going to form beliefs. And whenever I discover, you know, discover evidence that it’ll tend to wait on your beliefs. If you discover more of that if you study more of this, it’s going to it’s going to determine your beliefs and this side. So for me, it’s about letting go of my attachment to even what’s actually true, but which frees me up to explore the truth to a greater degree because I’m not worried about whether or not Got it right or not, I’m just gonna keep exploring and also be willing to be proven wrong. Like I’m okay with. I’m okay with, with me presenting some information. Like for example, you know, I tend to have hope I would say carry me sharing it. I tend to think that a lot of what’s going on right now with the Coronavirus, I just tend to think it’s a massive beta. I just think the whole thing’s been blown out of proportion. And I think the whole thing has just been way overcooked. I think the government’s overreacted. I just I don’t believe or what I think is a lot of lies. I think there’s misunderstandings. Now I’m happy to be proven wrong about all that. I happen to be proven wrong, right? Totally. However, I don’t I don’t need to be right or wrong. I’m just asking. We’ve got to keep asking questions. We have to keep challenging everything and it’s not done with blame or money, maliciousness. It’s done with curiosity. It’s done with love. And it’s done to saying, hey, if I’m going to stand up for the greatest good of humanity, my job is to remain curious. And expansive and to challenge everything coming down the line. Yes. And this is not about being right or wrong or about not wanting the good. It’s just about, I’m gonna pursue truth with no attachment to wherever it leads me. See, now you’ve mentioned the third word. And this is what I love. And this is where I’ve been going with it is that

 

Bryn 

I have this thing about, we become very addicted to knowing and knowns and staying safely in the comfort of this is what I know. And this is how we build these little scaffolding of a small life upon that, as opposed to journeying into the unknown. And by exploring what could be what could be is this is that without getting hung up on whether it’s right or wrong, I think we actually find our own truths are the stepping stones of truth, for our version of reality, in that exploration, and you know, when you find it because it just goes

 

 

Fuck, yes.

 

Bryn 

And you embody it and you feel it and you’re like, Yeah, wow, I just found a real note. To true, and then from there, then you can go out and express and create. And that’s probably what you do with your clients. And this is what I think we’re all being forced into. Because you know, even some of the people who would never engage with me on some higher bigger expensive word thinking, as they call it, and now starting to go, Bryn, I really feel like I need to talk to you. Why is that? It says, I just don’t know if I can believe stuff on a TV anymore. Okay, right. Wow. And it’s not a it’s not a fucking told you. So it’s a hold a space of compassion and exploration and go. Okay, so why is that? Well, you know, one way to say this one that saying that and it just doesn’t sit right. So what does it write for you? And that’s how I’m finding myself being of great service.

 

Chris Jackson 

Yeah, and I love what you what you just shared it because what it’s doing is it’s helping people to explore the truth for themselves. Because that’s, that’s the only way that it works. It works. One way is it works. You can’t no one else can tell you true you You have to see you have to look within to discover the truth for yourself. And so that’s the process that’s going to happen. And then, yeah, there’s a convergence towards what is that truth and the only way that you’re going to arrive it at a place of truth is by willing

 

 

to explore untruth. Yeah.

 

Chris Jackson 

That’s the only way you get to truth is because you were sitting here you don’t

 

Bryn 

know. Yeah.

 

Chris Jackson 

And that’s the process. So we need to be well and truly okay with being wrong or being sitting on a misunderstanding. Because that’s just part of life. That’s, you know, I’m, in fact, I’m hoping to get proven wrong on most of what I know, because I know on the other side of that is going to be a higher degree of truth, a higher degree of understanding so so this is celebration, every time my truth comes collapsing down. And it turns out to be based upon a lie, is a celebration inside of me. There really is. And I think as if, if everyone had that attitude, this this would be a delicious conversation for everyone to be having rather than rather than a Fight of who knows who’s wrong. It’s like it. Either way, whatever we discover brilliant that with a step in the right direction anyway. So yeah, letting go of this personal is not we’re not making it personal. We’re just simply talking about ideas and we’re testing it. Yeah, it’s it’s comparing one idea with another it’s not comparing to people and who’s right and who’s wrong. So we talked about ideas we’re

 

Bryn 

talking about truth, truth doesn’t get the exponential growth by just adopting that as an operating system for life. Hmm. Yeah, it’s magic.

 

Chris Jackson 

It’s powerful. And because it’s applied to the self as well as applied to Current Affairs and applied to politics is as much as anything it’s because when you can take the same critical thinking to yourself, you bypass your own bullshit, because you can actually say, hang on, where am I lying to myself? Wherever I believe in believing absolute lies that I bought into maybe decades or more ago, and so it’s Applying the same principles of exploring truth and critical thinking, doesn’t matter where you apply, you apply it to yourself to your best friend, to your family, to your job, to your career, to politics to the universe, everywhere. And it’s not about sort of that fault finding. It’s about discovering truth

 

Bryn 

out of that, what else? What else? What else?

 

Chris Jackson 

Yeah, and it’s not about blame, either. It’s about curiosity. It’s about taking responsibility for if we want to create change, and if we will, we’re wanting to be sovereign. The only thing that prevents us from expressing our sovereignty is fear and misunderstandings. And so, so that that principle of truth gives us access to sovereignty, to empowerment to rectifying misunderstandings, it allows us to be our highest expression allows us to discover what’s life really about. So it’s the old truth is the ultimate doorway that just this leads to all the goodness in life

 

Bryn 

Ah, Chris, love it. And what have you learned about yourself during this recent Coronavirus thing that you have to share? Oh, Jael little Chris revelation,

 

Chris Jackson 

that what I’ve learned about myself is that there is so much fear that I that I have that I didn’t even realise that I had, like a lot of fear about not only, I guess, the state of the world and where it’s going, because I kind of got into a bit of a safety bubble thinking either worlds ticking along nicely, I’m kind of taking it for granted. So definitely a deeper awareness of the fear that I have around knowing about what potentially might happen. But at the same time, through sitting in that feeling of fear and going deep into that fear and confronting it head on not trying to run from it, but going what great bringing that fear in and saying what am I afraid of? It’s led me to actually grow and to deepen my own sense of mastery and my own sovereignty, and even share like on on this interview, like actually talk about Yeah, I’m I have fear and I’m okay with my fear. Talk about yeah I don’t agree with what’s happening I think a lot of the politicians have got it completely wrong they’re pointing in the wrong direction. I’m okay with saying this now. whereas previously I would have been afraid of being perceived as being something. And so what I’ve done is I’ve actually purged Layers of Fear through the discovery of the fear. I’ve purged and I’ve moved through it. And I’m actually more courageous and more confident, unless attached as well. Like I’m, I’m, I’m a soldier for truth, but at the same time, I am okay of losing the truth war if higher truth emerges, right? Yes. So it comes in.

 

 

Yeah,

 

Chris Jackson 

yeah. Yeah. So I’ve discovered a lot of fear. I definitely discovered it I mean that’s I’ve just touch on fear to begin with because I just wanted to be, I wanted to be a bit vulnerable there in terms of just being real about like I am. I’m like most people like, I’m not invincible. I’m not some superhero that doesn’t experience you know that that is just in just invincible, like, human like the rest of it. I go through it, I go through it like everyone else I’m just really fortunate with the understanding that I’ve got is I’ve got a lot of tools of self inquiry to be able to unpack what I’m going through to be able to emerge out the other side of the chaos, probably quicker or probably more graceful than most people, right, but we still go through it. But I certainly I feel empowered. I feel I’ve been through this incredible creative period in the last couple of months. I’ve now birth new products from my business. There’s joint venture partnerships, there’s collaborations, there’s there’s a whole It feels like I’ve shared my scheme is like a snake shedding its skin. I feel like I’ve been through my own mini little mini transformation in this life. last little couple of months. So, so I’ve mentioned my mo Yes, yeah, it has been a bit of a metamorphosis metamorphosis and, and I feel I’m feeling more positive than ever before. Because I’ve, I’ve really reminded myself of the strength that I’ve got at my core. I go because I’ve now been through a lot of I’ve been through low chaos in my mind, like I’m sure a lot of people have. And what I’ve done is I’ve allowed myself to sit in it long enough and to digest it, to actually see it as a stream. And as a virtue from that not it’s not something that’s that’s weakened me.

 

 

Awesome. Awesome.

 

Bryn 

What just out of curiosity, what are some of those tools that you mentioned? Because I always like to. And towards the end of the interview, I like to ask people, you know, what are some of the things that they do to keep yourself grounded and stuff like that, but what are some of the tools that you reach for, you know, as we go through this fearful, essential, challenging times?

 

Chris Jackson 

Yeah, well, well, I’d say probably one of the highest level tools that I’ve got is I have coaches and mentors that I’ve worked with personally that helped me go through that purging process. I mean, that’s there’s nothing I’ve never done. I haven’t discovered anything as powerful as having someone else guide you through that process. As I know you when in your work as well you know that when you’re guiding other clients through that process, you help them see things that they possibly the blind spots, they would never see it. So that’s, that’s one thing that is really important to me. I’m part of lots of online men’s groups, like men’s circles, I like actually sharing circles with sharing my own darkness sharing my own fears, my own like all the all the things I’m looking to improve but in terms of practical things. One thing that I find is really, really helpful is what I call stream of consciousness journaling, which is simply a process of allowing your, your pen to write onto a page to be a conduit of just literally word for word verbatim transcribing the contents of your consciousness onto a page and doing that for you. Setting a time and doing it for 10 minutes at a time. And allowing yourself to not filter that not be shameful of that not not hiding from any of it and allowing it to be purged onto the page. And then what you get is you get a total transcription of the contents of your awareness, which is profoundly enlightening. Because if you can actually look into the contents of your awareness, you’ll say incredible, sometimes crazy limiting beliefs or fears or just weird weird and wacky shit. That just makes no sense. But But if you actually look into it, you can actually say, oh, wow, I’ve got some things I need to confront here. I’ve actually got to deal with so

 

Bryn 

that similarly, you find some real power, and you find some stuff you like,

 

Chris Jackson 

whoa, oh, it’s both sides. It’s it’s Yeah, yes, there’s this this is stuff that that it’s scary, but it’s also the opportunity. I mean, in all of that there’s opportunity. So that’s one practice that I do daily now, which is which is really getting clear on what’s going on inside my mind. I have a lot of other practices, self coaching practices. And I have a lot of I’ve got a lot of tools in my personal development and spiritual toolkit that I that I revert to but but I’d say that’s probably one of the most impactful ones, as well as having a list of questions that I asked myself like key questions I asked myself every day, every single day, like, I’ve got a list of questions. And if the questions are powerful questions, help us expand the mind. So questions like, if I was being the highest expression of myself, Well, what would I be doing in my life differently? What would I say no to what would I What would I eliminate from my life? If I was infinitely powerful? And I could make any choice in my life? What’s the choice that I would make that I’ve been too afraid to make? So there’s a whole series of these choices which if you can confront yourself with a question and sit through that and genuinely answer it, what you find is on the other side of that is His revelation, his insight. So yes, actually designing and architecting questions that bypass the habits of the unconscious mind because your mind will just we will just cycle around with the same old thoughts every day unless you interrupt it with new paradigms, new questions and new, challenging, new challenging questioning. So that’s another powerful tool that I recommend is designing questions for yourself.

 

 

Now your questions you’ve never asked yourself before, and even asking the question, yeah,

 

Chris Jackson 

what questions Can I ask myself that are going to be in my highest good, that’s a that’s a great way of taking that down. Yeah, number of rabbit holes. What are the questions that I’ve never even thought of asking what what questions could I possibly ask that we created an incredible transformation in my experience all confront me? What questions do I need to be asking? That would radically shift my perspectives or my awareness?

 

Bryn 

Super, super. And the last question I asked all my guests on wi rail is if you could take a little nugget of of Chris’s knowledge and upload it to To the collective consciousness, so everyone just got it. What would that be right now? It would be that every single human has the capacity

 

Chris Jackson 

to live their life pursuing their life’s greatest Work, work, meaning it could be could be a business, it could be a career, it will be some meaningful, lifelong project. Everyone has the capacity to actually be the highest expression of that. And the only thing that’s preventing someone from really connecting to an expressing their life’s work is the belief that they can’t do it. The beliefs that they’re not worthy of it, and the the lies and the limitations and the misunderstandings that have been conditioned into the mind. That’s the only thing that’s stopping every human from being that highest expression of themselves. So that’s what I’ve discovered to be true and As soon as people get a glimpse that that’s also true, their life will transform quicker than they would ever conceived off.

 

 

Outstanding.

 

Bryn 

Chris, it’s been an absolute pleasure talking to you today. If people want to come and find you, where do they find you?

 

 

Yeah, they can check me

 

Chris Jackson 

out on ChrisJacksoncoaching.com. Alternatively, they can send me a message on Facebook, they can probably look me up on on Facebook. That’s another way but yeah, my websites probably the best way. So anyone that’s interested in connecting, please reach out. I’d love to love to connect with anyone that that vibes on this conversation or anyone that is obviously looking for potential coaching or looking for guidance in that sort of area as well.

 

Bryn

superb Thank you so much for your time, Chris.

 

Chris Jackson

Thanks, Bryn. It’s been a pleasure.

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