#162 Slow the world the fuck down – a conscious conversation with Suzanne Waldron

This week I welcome back previous guest Suzanne Waldron – straight-talking behavioural facilitator, TedX Perth Curator and artist.

This is a far-ranging conversation offering a number of perspectives of the world we now live in.

Among the many things we go into are:

  • Looking into the illusions of life that we’ve all being buying into
  • The need to slow the world the fuck down from the previous rush, need to know, constant doing and selling
  • The invitation to become more ‘human’ and sit with that – shadow and all
  • Deep diving into Karpman’s drama triangle and how that plays out in life – particularly the role of victim and well-meaning helper in the capitalist context
  • Feeling into the collective experience that is going on as oppose to individual experiences
  • How we’re at the apex of worshipping ourselves as individuals

Suzanne also talks about her recent book Sleeping Giants, which provokes further discussion about resilience and an accessing your own inner sleeping giant.

This is a playful yet searching conversation and often it’s difficult to work out just exactly who is interviewing who in this conversation.

I personally found this a wonderfully nourishing conversation and hope you the listener will too.

Read Full Transcript

Bryn 

This week I welcome back previous guest Suzanne Waldron – straight-talking behavioural facilitator, TedX Perth Curator and artist.

This is a far-ranging conversation offering a number of perspectives of the world we now live in.

Among the many things we go into are:

  • Looking into the illusions of life that we’ve all being buying into
  • The need to slow the world the fuck down from the previous rush, need to know, constant doing and selling
  • The invitation to become more ‘human’ and sit with that – shadow and all
  • Deep diving into Karpman’s drama triangle and how that plays out in life – particularly the role of victim and well-meaning helper in the capitalist context
  • Feeling into the collective experience that is going on as oppose to individual experiences
  • How we’re at the apex of worshipping ourselves as individuals

Suzanne also talks about her recent book Sleeping Giants, which provokes further discussion about resilience and an accessing your own inner sleeping giant.

This is a playful yet searching conversation and often it’s difficult to work out just exactly who is interviewing who in this conversation.

I personally found this a wonderfully nourishing conversation and hope you the listener will too.

 

 

 

Hello and welcome back to WA Real. I’m your host Bryn Edwards Today we have the great pleasure of welcoming back Suzanne Waldron.

 

Suzanne Waldron 

Hello,

 

Bryn 

So previously Episode 60 and today we’re on 162

 

Suzanne Waldron 

Really? Yes. Oh my goodness, you’ve had so many conversations since me.

 

Bryn 

I have I have hope you don’t feel like I’ve been conversation cheating.

 

Suzanne Waldron 

That’s it. So stop the stop the recording

 

Bryn 

the recording. So for those who may have missed that episode 60. You are big into behavioural facilitation, to work with organisation and leaders, also curator at TEDx, and quite the artist as well.

 

Suzanne Waldron 

That’s what happens. Yeah,

 

Bryn 

recently Yeah. And the last time when we sat in the beautiful surroundings of mellow house, and we talked a lot about straight talking and compassionate honesty, and stuff like that, which I really, really enjoyed. Yeah, yeah, that’s awesome. Indeed. So

 

Suzanne Waldron 

what’s been happening the world just kind of do the thing.

 

Bryn 

Yeah. And that’s kind of why I would like why I thought, great chat to Susan again, because of your because the whole thing around straight talking and compassionate honesty. And I don’t know for me, it just feels like now more than ever, that’s kind of what we need. That’s kind of what’s sort of happening but needs a little bit more help. come to fruition. Yeah,

 

Suzanne Waldron 

the thing I think this is a step before it now that I’ve been playing around with and that is being able to see ourselves so we know what we’re being honest about. And I think COVID has been able to help people lift the lid on illusion, a little bit. But the thing is, is that we don’t know what we’re looking at, like we’ve lifted a lid on illusion, say illusions under the pot and you open the pot up, and they’re like, Okay, so that’s illusion. What the fuck is I don’t even recognise what illusion is I don’t even know how to do the criteria for the illusion was Yes. So we’re lifting the lid on it, but we don’t actually know what it means to have been an illusion, but also, what it means necessarily to see what we want or need for ourselves as a as a human race, let alone all of the societal stuff that wraps around that. So

 

Bryn 

when you say illusion, what what are you meaning around that?

 

Suzanne Waldron 

So from my perspective, I think what I see and have been seeing is the ever increasing capitalist, materialistic and consumer eristic view yes on the world. So buy more, get more, be more do more version of you. It’s just, you know, constantly growing on things status and profit and materials. Yes. And when the threat of that is potentially being taken away, that we can’t move around, we can’t get, we won’t be able to have the things and positions are not necessarily apps now because the world and the structure in which we were used to trading or conversing or politics is shifted very quickly, because we have a external threat to the human race. Yes. And was, was lifted for the moment. And then people go, Oh, my God. So if all of those things that I’ve been thinking are really real, yeah. And those are the things that I’ve been using as a criteria or a framework to run my life are not necessarily true or weren’t as true as they were. I thought they were or as important, then what is it that I actually want to see? Yes, what is it that I actually do? See as a deeper human reason for being alive, and now we’re getting deeper, meaningful, real quickly, good and bad. So the illusion, I think, is this fog that sits in front of us as people in society that essentially renders us useless and processed, rather than free and organic, and connected. Hmm that’s what I’ve been thinking about. Quite succinctly. And

 

Bryn 

thought is interesting because I, I actually spoke not so long ago about almost the requirement for an existential crisis on a regular regular regular sort of occurrence. And, and you know, I got asked not so long ago you know, you call your podcast anyway, real was the real about and from nowhere out came there’s nothing more real than that. And but more often than not, my podcasts cover the ending of people’s stories that they tell themselves. So it’s almost like your illusion. This is why I asked you what illusions mean to you. And to me, there’s been a big resonance around the stories that we tell ourselves. And we tell ourselves so we can so we know who we are, how we navigate in the world, but I’ve sort of reflected quite heavily on my own. I think I share this with other people my own addiction to knowing things. You know, I’m a tax consultant did very well in school, that is bread and cultural eyes to know things and look smarter, not look stupid, and stuff like that. And so now, I’m exploring more the whole sitting in the unknown and come to be saying, and doing that has helped me to see I’ve always felt the illusion that you’ve been talking about. But now I could kind of see it because it’s like, well, I don’t pay What else could they be?

 

Suzanne Waldron 

It’s very confusing. And it’s also because it is confusing because we literally are stepping into a place where we don’t have a blueprint for it, which is beautiful. Yes. Well, maybe we do have I’m just questioning that as I say it because we probably have a blue a very old blueprint culturally in a heritage of all your time gone by. Yeah. But we don’t have the blueprint when we’ve got technology and globalisation, things like that. Today, it’s beautiful that you’re talking about not not needing to know or trying to check check that Yes. Do you have around needing to look smart or be you know, yes. Question about what is real as well. Or I? Because I study philosophy as well. It’s just blows my head off because everything so Israel, yeah. is thinking what is knowing and then you start to go off into a whole rabbit hole. What I think is beautiful about this opportunity that we have all matches it might be confusing to a lot of people and Also confronting, and I label those as things I feel myself as well as potentially seeing others is that we’ve got an opportunity to connect more into humanity than we have been, what it really means to be human and to deal with our primal needs. Yes, rather than a superficial spinning of media and agenda and politics that are near the purple lipstick world has kind of really wanted us

 

Bryn 

to buy in to buy into so it can generate countless consumers that just relentlessly moves forward. And

 

Suzanne Waldron 

then it just keeps on it’s going to explode. And so we’ve got this pause or this opportunity or this window to look into something different. But I think what you’re saying is actually really important is is not expecting to understand it or know it, because I think therein lies a skill set that’s really important for us. Yes, to be curious and to connect into Do you know how that might make us feel? which is unusual, but sit with that? Yeah, but then having to process it really quickly to get to this outcome that’s going on and achieve. Yeah, you know,

 

Bryn 

because we are so predictable outcomes. And, you know, come on my course. And in a week’s time, you’ll be able to do such research in this, that and the other, I think are like in debt in my presentation, that if you considered there being two opposing muscles, our knowing things or our capacity to want to know and knowing things, it’s like Olympic class muscle, but the opposing muscle is sitting in the unknown and not knowing and being okay with that. It’s almost like atrophied.

 

Suzanne Waldron 

Really good analogy. Um, I have a question for you now. Cool, because you just mentioned something that’s been playing on my mind and I would like to talk about it. This is going to be a counselling session for us both. right with that. You know, you said the thing you know, sign up now and in eight weeks to get the course and you know, those sorts of things. Yeah. I recognised in what I’m about to say that everybody has their place and everyone needs certain To live and, and that people are doing the best they can. So I want to frame it with this is not blame or judgement question, because I’ve known that it can sound like that. But well now I want to frame it because I think it’s important to frame and contextualise to soften any misunderstandings that stop the message from being received. So I’m actually really okay framing and contextualising but my straight this in the question is, do we need to do less processing people through funnels to get attention to be self promoted? Because there’s a lot of noise out there at the moment with a lot of people sort of doing that self selfies and self promotion and and let me take you on a journey and let me help you. Yeah, it just seems to be millions of different people doing it. But I don’t know how many people are actually doing the work. They’re talking about doing the work, but I’m not entirely sure how many people Working on what they talk about. And I’m worried that we’re over processing each other so much so that everything becomes a number, or everything becomes an opportunity to win someone’s work. More so than actually doing the depth of the work with people from an authentic place. And I struggle with this, you personally struggle with it. Because I understand that algorithms and processes and get the numbers in and the people come and the followers and the influences and things like that, that there is a there is an actual relevance to that. But always, are we not really taking care of one another when we’re just trying to process people through through an algorithm or through trying to get them to buy things. I’m just worried. I’m just worried that it’s just a new version of neoliberalism in the sense that we will not be treating each other through our hearts.

 

Bryn 

Yes. And it’s super interesting because that’s That’s the end of this little line down here. Okay, tell me about that. The thoughts, the thoughts on the true impact of coaching and programmes and things out in the world. And I think

 

 

there’s almost

 

Bryn 

so to be super transparent, I found that recently, there was a story in May that was being hooked by much of this, come and do this course and you’ll learn and then do do a course and put it out to the world and at the end, you know, the pressure, the internal pressure to from during the podcast to do something that sort of spins out of the podcast has been quite large on myself. And and then so there’s been this story that sort of sits there and it got one truly hooked and I had This whole Well, I need to find the thing in the world that can help. So then I can turn it into a business and do the thing and be helpful. And we’re providing to that. And that recently just blew up. And I saw the story that was being hooked into about there were certain things in a period period of time that I wasn’t happy about, and I just in the crucible of that decided this is not going to happen again. And from there, I was like, I’m gonna be the master of my destiny on off. And then anything that helped with that hooked in nicely and off I went. And so seeing that story bubble up recently, by seeing some of the people that I was following, including my original podcast mentor, almost, and I’m watching these people will blow up recently made me go shit, and then it came up and then I saw suddenly start to see and feel something that had been niggling away. And, and yeah, we’re at this point, the saturation point of of the funnel and I need to do the thing online and I need to be bringing them in and yet, in this COVID environment, I found the influence have never been so more redundant and irrelevant. I’m sitting there, I’m at home with my fiance, we’re doing the work. I have a walk on the beach this stuff Yeah, there and someone’s coming on tell me you know, this, that the other all the things, the pre COVID everything we were chasing after the illusions the stories that now that they’re not there or they’re not quite accessible, and you’re just like, Dude, this is so relevant. And, and so it’s highlighted is really brought it out to me. And then it’s almost questioned. I’m sure everybody is most people out there have a brush with a life collision of some discouraged some description. And then because it’s been painful for them like the parent who doesn’t want their child to go through that pain again you want to share that thing that helps you go through so nobody house to collide with life but unfortunately colliding in life is a key part of life and learning how to get triggered learning how to sit in your own nervous system, learning how to process your own emotions, and learning how to wasn’t even learning it’s just dealing with and so this relentless, you know, I can take you in eight weeks to the best version of you well, like That’s absolutely right. Or in a ways we can get the ABS that always Why do you need the fucking abs? You know, or you can work from home and this is like, maybe, like, think about changing your job. And I all have just really engaged with it and then so it strikes me that there’s almost people who have these brushes or collisions with life and if you look at the if you look at the, the formula, you know, people like Russell Brunson have been awesome at breaking down. This is how you present a webinar. You do this and then you have the relatable story and then you get to the key Domino of what’s how to take you from here to there. And then that invites you to position your solution and stuff like that. You come out and you look at it and just like, holy crap, it’s such a formula. Yeah. Very clever formula, you know, in the lights of like I said, Russell Brunson and Tony Robbins in you know, you go back. They’ve been at it for years. Yes, and you get processed, you go to these high energy tempo events or eight weeks, or you buy a six week online course. And I’ll be honest, I had to move from this podcast to zoom podcast for six weeks. It’s nice during a patch on a real interaction, right? I would now pay to go and sit in a group with people I would pay to sit in a room and actually interacting physically do the thing on many levels online. I’m gonna spend more than 100 bucks because I just want the information. And so more and more now, going on a real thing. I know more and more now I become super sensitive about well meaning coaches and and everyone’s got to fix for everything, you know, and this anxiety around everything needs to be fixed. There aren’t that many problems. The real Aren’t you know if you if you scale back what we’ve had taken away from is it it’s irrelevant. Nobody’s taken away biologicals taken away food now it’s taking away your water. No, it’s taken away your

 

Suzanne Waldron 

if if you live in a country and we’ll talk about it yes in, in in a country where you have actually got a government that is working. Yeah, so that’s not entirely true but yes, continue

 

Bryn 

where we are in Western Australia. Yeah, right now. Yeah. Who? And so it’s Yeah. I’ve also started to look at it further in terms of and in terms of, you know, probably my, my degrees in psychology and stuff coming out and I love a little framework that you’ve got Carmen’s drama triangle. We all know what a persecutor looks like. I find now that I find now that They, the legitimization of the victims base, almost become a little cancer in our society. I don’t deny that there are people top and bottom 10% who legitimately are getting victimised or victims in some way. But it strikes me that because we’ve we’ve created provisions for victims here systematically, in the way, you know, everything’s structured that the other large chunk of the other 80% want to dive in there.

 

Suzanne Waldron 

Tell me more about what you mean about that. Because it’s I think it’s important that we don’t marginalise it victims in any way. No, it’s and that’s

 

 

what you mean, when I say that there’s legitimately a top and bottom 10%. That’s what I mean, sorry, in terms of a bell curve.

 

Bryn 

The outlaws that genuinely need help and support inciting, benevolent we should provide that but it’s almost like because of the systems and things that have been put in place to look after them. Others have gone off Wow, that’s a little bit me. Okay. And and so I find that it’s it’s almost fashionable to feel to be I’d been offended transgressed victimised or something. And but then the other part of the triangle is the helper. And, you know,

 

 

culturally how

 

Bryn 

you could deny that helpings a good thing.

 

 

But is it?

 

Suzanne Waldron 

Well, this is so the Cartman triangles beautiful, I think because for anyone listening them to my understand is there’s three states the persecutor, the rescuer and the victim and two of those always need to be in place the victim is always in play. Yes, as acute as a person dying you shouldn’t see it. And that the rescue is like let me help you. Make everything right for you. And yes,

 

Bryn 

you but the key player on the board can move people around the board.

 

Suzanne Waldron 

Absolutely. And so actually I think our goals in life is not to be on the board not to be a triangle, right? So they’re just like I always like to avoid it. Yeah, just don’t get in the triangle Don’t be when any one of those roles from a mentality or a psychological perspective. So there’s a difference between real victims who have been, you know, very much hurt

 

 

or

 

Suzanne Waldron 

traumatised or wounded from any kind of type of behaviour that has violated them. And then there’s a victim mentality, I think, which is a slightly different version of the triangle where victims or victim mentality is that I don’t have control of my life. Yes, and that can feel like you’re dumb down. Yeah, have control where it could be an internal state. That happens because of many different reasons. But it’s funny, isn’t it? Because we don’t want to victimise the victim but you also want to check a reality as to go up are we victims, from our own thinking and our own sense of self esteem? Things like that actual victimhood where something significant has happened to us. So do you think that though, some of the Even if you say the 80%, where they don’t necessarily have legitimate victim status, just say, let’s put it like that moment? Yeah. Do you think that that some kind of historical hurt and healing that’s coming from many different cultures that have been suppressed, and that we have actually we’re living out a genetic predisposition to suffocating things that have happened in the past, like trauma to Aboriginal history of people in intergenerational trauma? Black Lives Matter is happening as well. Now, you’ve got people in many different countries who are marginalised and suppressed, and D Do you think that perhaps we’re tapping into parts of ourselves that we’ve suppressed for a very long time, and that would now allow ourselves to see what injustice and hurt really Looks like you’re tapping into

 

 

it more and

 

Bryn 

of course with three levels of an answer to that.

 

 

One is

 

Bryn 

it strikes me that many older ways of living civilizations. And I base that not just on my scant knowledge of Aboriginal life here, but also having spent time in South America as well is that there were rituals and ways of beings which acknowledged the, almost like the internal psychic forces that we all go through and, and and recognise that we have shadows individually and collectively and that so therefore, whether through dance chant, plant medicine, whatever you put That you legitimise it, acknowledge it and purge it and release it out. It strikes me that here in the West we, you know, if I tried to talk about shadow to most people what flow you know, and you know, and it’s the whole Yeah, well there’s a dark part of you that’s why you can be a wanker some days. You can go from being nice as pie in the morning to being a wangka middle of the afternoon. And then back to nice pie by Tita. And, and that’s because, you know, we are not just one version of the South we have multiple verses which, you know, black and white and all shades of grey in between. And when we don’t legitimise that, it’s almost like I’ve heard it described before as you press it down. And so the basement gets full of shit. And then after a while, it gets pretty stinky and it gets pretty full up and it starts coming out. And so therefore, we ourselves and not actually, as I said earlier on, what does it truly mean to be Human, I don’t think we’re actually in touch with the true nature of the science of being human, but the nature you know, the the, is some of the turmoil in the world that’s happening. surprisal surprising, really. It’s not. Because the second part Mansur is you’ve got systems in place that are just the external reflection of that, that just suppressing, you know, logical data and thinking we’ve got capitalism, there’s no place for this that the other doesn’t. And so you’re not acknowledging it internally. You’ve built systems externally.

 

 

Yeah.

 

Bryn 

It’s all coming together. And I think that’s just being brutally honest about who we are. As humans, we can do amazing, creative, beautiful things. And when we’re in pressure, we can do some dark shitty things, right? We have the option to choose but sometimes even that choice can be really, really difficult when You’ve had layer after layer after layer after layer of anxiety, trauma, collision, shit, all of it on top of you. And then the third part my answer is, is that and this is where I probably go a little bit further down the rabbit hole than most is that I still this part of me that thinks that we are a reflection of the consciousness of the physical planet that we live on. And that in and of itself, has received a large amount of damage. And so that itself is reflecting its pain. And so therefore, we collectively feel that I find it particularly interesting at the moment that all things have shifted almost since about December for me where I can meet people and they’d be going through their own little journey, you know, epiphany awakening, be the trauma in this and they would be doing it almost felt like they were there and they were on their own and they might help and support us now. It seems like everybody’s got something going on. And it’s almost like that if we were to raise the temperature of the pH value of the ocean for the fish and dolphins and everything they would all notice collectively they would all notice if you just went and I think that’s what’s happening for all of us. And so it doesn’t feel so lonely in the in the drama in the journey at the moment

 

Suzanne Waldron 

hmm Yep. Hey, I love what you say then about the the feeling the reflection of the earth and and because I got a lot more work myself on understanding and like probably everything I’m about to tell you is all by no but about how we connect in through the dimensions and the field in which we energetically are connected. So collective consciousness. Yes. You know, if you look at metaphysics and quantum physics and you know I say those words I can tell you like 30 things about them. But as we connect more than just what the matter is around us the things that we’re touching them, you know, we are connected faster, further through the nature around us and each other than we’ve ever really understood on or known. And yes, there’s some beautiful research around that at the moment. And I’m saying to someone the other day, that if we if human race was to be removed from the earth, not only would the earth not notice, because we’re not needed here, doesn’t mean I’m not relevant, but we’re not necessary to anything happening that they will probably be better off. And it’s not to say that humans are awful actually either believe in humanity so much in our and our species, and I think everybody is very valid. But the thing is, is that because of our growth and our intellectual growth that keeps us getting into these spaces of evolution of attainment and extraction and just more, more, more more get get get, you know, achieve to achieve that means that was of becoming blind to the health, the overall health of the entire universe and nature around us. And so that’s only going to hurt the earth, it’s going to hurt the environment around us, which ultimately will also then reflect it in us. And so I also in some days, I don’t know about you, but sometimes can feel really connected and sad, or any kind of negative emotion where I feel very conflicted or has going on, like, there’s necessarily something right now that is hurting me. And sometimes I think, I am literally hearing and reflecting something from outside of me, which is people around me or the world and all the thoughts and feelings that are happening that are far greater than just myself. And I think there’s a really big collective version of that, right. And it’s not for us to blame or to judge is actually I believe it’s for us to have compassion for you. Because the better we are individually, the more than our reflection is helpful rather than it also harming. And I think that’s the beauty of the self work that helps people to deeply understand how they may live their life, but also have an impact outside of themselves in a good way.

 

Bryn 

Yes. So, you know, going back to the analogy of a former guest of you know, so we’re not energetically throwing garbage out the window or the car. Just so here’s a thought for you. And just picking on so you said that, if we were to be removed from the planet the planet wouldn’t notice. How about because it’s something I’ve been toying with. And how about the fact that we are here for a reason we are here for a specific design, and if we weren’t here, the planet would notice. Certainly trees would in the way we have a symbiotic relationship with we expel the carbon dioxide which then gets brought together with the water in the light to create the starch and then it gives off to one relationship we have here. But is it? Could it be the case and I like playing with this idea that we do have a reason we have a very specific purpose. We just haven’t spent enough time actually considering that. Tell me what you think that is? I don’t know the answer. But you’re gonna solve all the world’s problems? I know.

 

 

Yeah, here on this podcast. It’s not

 

Suzanne Waldron 

relevant. And that’s why I want to make the distinction between relevance and necessity. Yeah. Because we didn’t exist before. And the world yesterday was fine, and it was probably more healthy. Of course, we’re going to have an impact whether that’s good or bad. And our reason for being is probably just the whole purpose of life, isn’t it is to consider and wonder

 

Bryn 

is that per is that look under the illusion that you were talking about earlier on, than anything that’s not really aligned to that? is actually superposed.

 

Suzanne Waldron 

It’s true. And so Michael singer, who Love. Have you seen much of his stuff? Not gonna love it. So he did the surrender experiment and the untethered soul. Incredible. But he says really our job as humans is to witness the universe expressing itself. Yes, that’s it, and not to take on crap and to get rid of any crap within us that we’ve got. That’s it. That’s our job. Yeah. And I love how he keeps it very simple. He’s a Jewish Yogi and he is just this incredibly, you know, intelligent and creative kind of person. But I like that idea. But then I can understand from our humanity perspective that we confuse and connect so many dots that we we our mind just takes us into complete different places. You know, when I was when I right after right in the morning, I want to actually be read before my mind confuses me. Do you know what I mean? Yes, by the afternoon I’d like

 

 

Yes, a lot.

 

Suzanne Waldron 

Busy and it’s doing the things myself. Yeah. And I think though, what’s beautiful about Michael singer work is that it helps you to simplify and to recognise that we probably overestimate our place in the world and it’s not to say that we’re not important but we can spend too much time on ego and self obsession and things like that which I do as well

 

 

it’s not that I oh yeah I’m so he was sinless can cast the first stone absolutely

 

Suzanne Waldron 

give me 72 stones because I tell you, I struggle with those things myself. So it’s just, I think, a constant thinking about how can we support one another and help each other in a gentle, compassionate way. And to live a very simple, connected, worthwhile life? Yes, Ernie helps rather than hinders or harms. Yes. And I think that’s a lot of the stuff that you can we can get very caught up in judging and criticising And even I, you know, I look at myself and I think I don’t want now going back to the processing people through eight week courses and all that sort of stuff. I just don’t want to see so much of that. But I also really understand it.

 

Bryn 

Yeah, because everybody’s just trying to do the best they can and be relevant and helpful. Hey, it’s, you know what I mean? It’s almost like a little seedling that is always going to grow out to the capitalist bed. Right? And I guess one of the things that hasn’t helped us on our journey particularly when in our light we don’t want to deal with the shadow and the dark parts of us is that if some shining light dude do that turns out and guys I can take you through and we’ll just skip across the the shadow in your life but

 

Suzanne Waldron 

the thing is, is I did Michael singers course

 

 

yes. was eight. Funnily enough, I wait.

 

Suzanne Waldron 

I’ve watched it so many times. Yeah. So helpful. And so it’s not that it’s Not the thing is about how we go about capture, like the funnelling in the processing and the algorithm of the treatment of each other. So I love Russell Brand for the reason that he is very organic with his and consistent with his content. Yeah. And there’s really, really no expectation that you would do anything with him. He just wants his he’s a preacher now. Yeah. And there are things you can buy, and he did not get funnelled. Yes. And I so I love that. Yes. You know, I love that he is genuinely there to support and to help Of course, he’s got a brand that Oh, I love the pump. I just made the brand. Russell Brand has. And that helps. Yeah, like he’s always had that. But yeah, so there’s, there’s so many things, I think, that are very helpful and useful for us to share with each other. What I’m questioning in the original question is about how we go about doing that, and how we end up treating one another when we start treating each other like numbers and funnels and algorithms

 

Bryn 

yesterday. That’s where we’re move into that psychopathic devoid people from outcome. Which gets them

 

Suzanne Waldron 

moving. Yes. domina

 

Bryn 

Yeah, exactly. So I feel I’ve had this many impressions the men this many hits on my website which converted to this, and my email list is this big. And then it got through

 

Suzanne Waldron 

I do you understand and as soon as we get it, but I started

 

Bryn 

my very early career in the early 2000s as my only friend coaching proper, and it was with sales managers and Honda dealerships across the UK, and you know, we looked at the sales process you know, you need to make as many phone calls to get as many people in the dealership to get this made test drives do this to do this to do this again.

 

 

But how many cars on the road do we need?

 

 

Well, yeah, how many times do you need to replace your car? I don’t know.

 

Bryn 

So Going back a little bit into that victim legitimization and then bringing in where we were in the last podcast with straight talking how do we bring those together because you sort of mentioned it earlier on where it’s like to me at times the victims the and I have encountered this in workplaces where the victims get them suck themselves so wound up in victim hood that you can kind of see from a higher level, benevolent almost parenting type basis. They just need a firm word just snap a man or unless there’s another tool because sometimes loving them doesn’t get them out of the thing or the love that comes with a face like a hug and a cup of tea and a biscuit and my I’ve started to utter know whether it’s right or wrong, but I started to put across that love has different faces. And sometimes the face comes with the kick of the face. Yeah, you know, it’s what I refer to as a 13 year old daughter. It’s what I call higher order parenting and parenting for when she leaves at 1820 not because I want it to be my friend today.

 

Suzanne Waldron 

I’ve got more of a question for you and reflection and to see where you go with it. And

 

 

what it can be like I put my name

 

 

out myself. That’s right. What

 

Suzanne Waldron 

do you think is in you when you are feeling like you need to persecute says persecuting. Yeah, I’m telling you. I’m getting I’m now having a

 

Bryn 

I’ve gotten to this point where Yeah,

 

Suzanne Waldron 

so what is that in you? Because I think this is important that it’s an important thing to unpack it. Only two things go there. Because I think it helps us to recognise like, what is the use of any of our emotions?

 

 

Yes. So what is it when you I think, where I get to is and

 

Bryn 

it’s probably born out of experience where so so my parents both grew up with Wi Fi at a time when parents told you what to do. So they decided to go to the other end of the scale was like printing Jane my sister.

 

 

And it wasn’t Yeah, cuz we don’t want to be like that. And it’s like

 

 

cool and and

 

Bryn 

let’s not say it was like ridiculously free ranging but you know there were corridors and you found the edges of them from time to time but and that in itself was useful but I guess you know yours reflect back on what’s come before and it’s kind of like what I really like the fact that I organic was allowed to that but there were a couple of times when you just think every now and again just the firm word would have just helped a little bit and and it’s that probably coupled with having grown up being a people pleaser there’s probably something in there as well about me now inhabiting my own sovereignty, backing myself, which I’ve done more and more in the last three to five years. And you know, doing stuff like this has propelled that to the point where, where sometimes it’s, yeah, it’s kind of this just feels like a truth for me. And I’ve sat by far too often and allowed myself, let alone others to just mill around and fall off the cliff and And this that in the other end. And then it also comes into this. This this other thing that I’ve been playing with which is so there’s that context but this other thing that I’ve been playing with, which is about tacit approval where we we quietly acquiesce on things by being quiet. And then others around us interpret that as Oh yeah. Brings on board with that. Yeah, the classic thing can be sometimes the old man is listening, he’s gonna laugh about this. So my dad lives in the UK. He loves to protect and provide and this together and so sometimes when things going on here that are not working so well for me like he frustrates him he wants to protect and provide me from even though you know, age 45 and, and so sometimes you’ll get what you need to do is this, this this ness right? And not every face time Have I got the time, energy and bandwidth to just say No dad because this that the other, and so I just go quiet. So then what happens? He leaves the call, he thinks, oh yeah, I’ve told Brian what to do. And he’s going to go and do that. I think, Okay, well, the human deal, man, I don’t really want to upset him. I’ll let him say his thing and do his plays a role. And if you guys, two weeks later, we’ll have another FaceTime call is that how did you do the thing? And I’m like, No, why not? Oh, it’s never gonna do it. But you said you will go. And then you think, well, I gave tacit approval by being quiet and quietly acquiescing. So then, once you open that up, then it’s like, oh, crap, that is an avenue to try to correct the world, which is just tiring. So this is this healthy tension now within me, which is I can be quiet. Oh, no, actually, I’ve got to the place now where if I actually care about someone Then I tell them can’t be honest with someone.

 

 

Then I acquiesce

 

 

then,

 

Bryn 

yeah, so it’s, yeah, say but it’s it’s but to go through some of that thought process involves or I might have to go into the world of collision and conflict which could do my turn telling it like it is according to my truth. Yeah.

 

Suzanne Waldron 

Well, my question and my advice always to anyone including myself is what is your intent in the communication and conversation? So your question was, you know, how to straight talk relate to victimhood so to speak, and how do we you know, have that, that type of connection, and I think it’s important I so what I’m hearing when I hear you speak is about finding your voice and being able to know when it’s time to speak and when it’s time to be quiet. Hmm. Which is a beautiful lesson, and also is knowing that in You treat others as well. Yeah, there will be times where just because you want to do that doesn’t mean it’s right for them. Yes. And then it becomes about you becomes about you not having Yes.

 

Bryn 

quiet voice and my nervous system be agitated by their behaviour needing

 

Suzanne Waldron 

to have a voice. But is that actually helpful to them? Yes. And so when people are dealing with victims, and I’m talking about victim mentality, yes. Then victims, yes. You have actually been perpetrated in some kind of heinous way. And so do you really want to keep harping on About what?

 

 

Yeah, just in case anyone popped in

 

Suzanne Waldron 

early don’t want anyone to think that? It’s not, it’s not None. None of this is valid, because every every situation is valid in which we’re talking. But it’s about how do I help that person? And I think it’s more about how do we help them be seen? And how do I be in a way that helps them to feel heard and seen and that takes nuanced ability to notice what people need and the difference? So straight talk isn’t brutal. Yeah, my views and straight Talk isn’t necessarily about from my point of view, whether I love you or not. It’s more about how do I support in that communication, and a way for you to be able to see yourself and feel that you’ve been seen Yes, to come to the outcome of the reason that we’re even talking in the first place. So if it’s in a workplace, it might be about helping them clear up some stuff in their head so they can get on with their work. Or if it’s a loving relationship, it might be about you feeling supported and loved and honoured by me, if that’s what you need. And so like, what is the intention of our communication? And then what is it within me that needs my assertion or quietness or whatever that is needed? To get the outcome of which we are? Co create? Yeah, yeah.

 

 

Yeah. co creator, co creator. Yeah.

 

Suzanne Waldron 

And so when we think about straight talk and victimhood, I think it’s about being really compassionate to the nuances in which a co created conversation doesn’t there is no one way. Yes, then Permission seeking and helping people to really understand that you your best interest lays with them. Yes. And I think if we can all come from that frame and that sounds different all the time.

 

 

Yeah. And the intention is

 

Bryn 

it is it’s been such a key thing to play with because it’s, I find at the moment in this highly emotive place that a lot of us around we can respond so quickly to the behaviour and assign something like that to male or female PSP off or do something like that where it’s like, Well no, what is the actual intention behind what is the intention behind most people’s behaviours, just dropping down to that level. A lot of this

 

 

is

 

Bryn 

is sitting on a bed of Concentration span, holding nuances in our heads.

 

 

And yet

 

Bryn 

you switch on the TV and put the news on. And it’s 60 seconds, 60 seconds. 60 seconds black and white, reduced. It’s this. It’s not that it’s this. It’s not that. How would you see the clash of those two come together?

 

Suzanne Waldron 

Beautiful observation. So you’ll notice there’s no television in my house. Yeah. And two years ago, I’ve talked about this in our first podcast, but two years ago, I barked on a bit of an experiment that just become a way of life, which is I don’t actually read the media, watch the media, listen to the media at all. Yes. And so I don’t look at the news that I listen to commercial radio. I don’t see adverts on TV and things like that. Because I just started to truly realise how that is just someone else’s agenda, but I really don’t need to be bought into Yes, like it is a profit making machine that is just gonna push me into that consumerist, materialistic world. My values have become about having things and being somebody I mean as in like a status driven profit fueled purpose and an organisational chart, rather than for me and this is I am talking for myself is more important for me, I think to be able to settle. I had a really violent childhood. Yes. And I just jumped really quickly there but I just thought I’d give it a context I didn’t cover Yeah, and traumatic. And I, I recognised as I get older, the more space I have, and the more quiet time I have, the more peaceful I am. Yes. And that then helps me be a better human in response to the other humans around. Yeah, and and nature and the earth, I hope. And if I go too fast and everything gets too quick, then I lose my sense of being able to actually have those nuances and communication. Yes. And I really I think I’m on this earth now to help hold that space to me. Such a slide how fucking thing down? Yeah, it’s just like, yes.

 

 

That could be the title of this guy. Yeah.

 

 

And so, from that perspective,

 

Suzanne Waldron 

I think there’s a massive correlation between the fact but see that’s driven Yeah, from let’s get, you know, as much noise out there as possible we’ve got to be the biggest and most noticed the one that’s got the most followers or the most money although we’re coming back to that the most, the most, the most the most the best, the best again, and then we’ll call these little slivers of many people trying to do

 

Bryn 

have people been excellent in one little sliver of their life. And then they’ll post that or make video about that and then you stick someone else and someone else someone else and the next thing you know all you see 72 million Chinese livers, shiny slivers that represent one semi collective holistic life that you are now comparing and contrasting yourself against is true Welcome to Yeah, yep.

 

Suzanne Waldron 

Yeah. And so that is a massive correlation. I can see how it’s happened. And I can see how it’s going to change. How’d you think, oh, Kevin is beautiful interruption for it for a little while. And again, it lifts the lid just long enough for us to go. Oh, now, we wouldn’t have been. So we would have sounded we might sound like loonies already. But if we had this had this conversation will work or people will actually listen to it and go, that just sounds

 

 

like we were a bit off. Yeah, well, then this market. But

 

Suzanne Waldron 

as I said, we could do that after. Yeah. But I feel that this is the time where this message could be received a little bit more.

 

 

Yeah. More and more of that. I think

 

Suzanne Waldron 

it’s awesome. But it doesn’t mean it’s not emotional and confusing and oh, but I also don’t really know where to say we’re going either like the last one. I mean, that there isn’t necessarily a blueprint. That’s

 

Bryn 

the coming back to the I don’t know. dinu every guy, I don’t know who I am in all of this. I don’t know what to do with all these failings. Anyway, the guy?

 

 

Yeah, that’s okay. That’s why something new and cool gets birth. Yeah.

 

Suzanne Waldron 

And if not, like, if not, because that’s that sometimes is the thinking, Oh, because if I didn’t rest into this, I’ll get something. Yeah. Or I will achieve something or something will come. Yeah, if it doesn’t. That’s also okay. Yeah. As I’ve personally tried to really sort of resist the achievement attainment, focus in myself, but it leaves me very confused, because it’s the way I used to know how to do things.

 

Bryn 

Yeah. Was the feedback. That gives you the sense of control. And now we’re doing things and instead of getting that Echo, it’s just going into the abyss Hello.

 

 

Hello.

 

 

Nothing bad.

 

Suzanne Waldron 

So I think

 

Bryn 

Doesn’t make it we actually, what comes up with a picture that comes up for me is when you say stuff like that it’s like stabilisers on the bike or coming off the training wheels. We don’t need the actor. Yeah. Just do it yourself. But for me,

 

Suzanne Waldron 

and but that is a whole practice that hasn’t been happening. So we can’t expect within three months for us as a human race to just get it and just get

 

Bryn 

  1. Otherwise, we’ll be doing what we did before. I Oh, you’re gonna get it now. Yeah. Well, we could sell a course.

 

 

I totally

 

 

get it. You heard it first. Right? This is eight weeks worth of content in 10 minutes. Okay.

 

Bryn 

There you go. So as well as processing life on a different level. You’ve also written a book.

 

Suzanne Waldron 

Yeah. So my second book, Sleeping Giants, giants. I am very emotional, but you want to have a flick through it while we’re talking? Because I’m just interested in which one you flick open to

 

 

okay.

 

 

I’ll tell you how I lost my highest self, my thumb where it needs to go into

 

Bryn 

vulnerability. I think I’ve already done a bit of that, talking about the dad and childhood growing up and stuff like that when we’re doing reading it out.

 

Suzanne Waldron 

We can always just doodle picture of it. But as you can see, it’s a book that you can use to look at one page at a time. But interestingly, the book came to me over the last couple of years, but it got born because I went to an orphanage in Africa in the slums. Yes. And it confronted me no end. And I’ve seen a way of living that I didn’t understand was possible. Yes. And so to stand in front of a woman who had 15 children to look after in a room, that’s probably as big as most of our bedrooms Yeah. In a mud hut with nothing but a pot of water and Water had come from a poisonous River. Yeah. Even if she had seeds to grow things shouldn’t have any water to water them. And if you had water you would have drunk it. Yeah. And that she sell her children to get Bryce or to get a cow she would sell her chores and then use herself sexually as well to get things what you needed when you’re standing in front of that, and our problem solving brains are going What can I do what can How can this be and he literally there’s just nothing Yeah, other than I’ll just give you what I have.

 

Bryn 

Yeah, he confronted but they’re best standing in bodied right in front of me.

 

Suzanne Waldron 

Well, it’s, it’s I personally was confronted with How can a government do this was 4.4 million people completely abandoned in the location that I was standing in? And how can corruption be this rife that our country as in Australia can have a government that’s really quite good is a government has completely abandoned millions of their people. There’s when I asked what the emergency number was, I mean, I was so lovely and naive, you know what I mean? What’s the emergency number in case I need to call somebody? and Christopher, who was I was with who was born there. And he said, What do you mean? I said the number like in case you need to hospital or police if there’s a fight, and he was just like, nothing like that, you know, and so, to be in a place like that, you know, having had the history that I’ve had from my own self, and then being there, it really confronted me that I couldn’t possibly understand and and I was in some people’s eyes, I would be the only white person I’ve ever seen with their own eyes in their lifetime where it was. So race came up as well as to why, you know, prejudice happens and why, you know, white supremacy or white privilege has come about a lot of things happened. And so in in my studies in behind Change. I studied how people move through thinking about something into pro social action, which is doing something for a greater good. And I ended up writing Sleeping Giants as a way of waking up this giant inside of us. Because what I saw when I was there was a lot of people who had giant. Yeah, I saw people who gave hope in a way that I had never understood hope, not some fanciful, I wish I was going to win the lottery, or I hope this will be over soon and returned to the new normal hope, which is an intellectual hope of some sort. Yes. And I experienced profound hope and hope that the next day we will still be alive and that we will share to be to stay alive. And so when I got home, I needed to write the stages of waking up. So there’s four stages in this book, but each page in the stages it’s about an emotion or or a situation that we find ourselves In that human, real deep human place where we are lost or hopeful or, you know, wanting more, and it’s about awakening this giant inside of us. Wow. Yeah. So it’s I, I only wrote my eight pages, I felt it didn’t write any of the pages just because it was time to write that also

 

 

crimes deadlines

 

 

all the time.

 

Suzanne Waldron 

All the time. And my beautiful friend Natalia, Natalia for deca, she did all the artwork for me. And so she really sat with the book and Mark mapes to help like the book have a feeling other than just words. And the title Sleeping Giants actually comes from Christopher from Kenya because we were sitting talking to each other in your seat. It was one of the only cars they have in the slums. And he told me about the story of Sleeping Giants. Yeah. And as he was talking about, I could just about keep up with what he was. I’ll just keep thinking to myself. That’s the title of my book. That’s the title of my book. Yeah. And so yeah, so that’s what I called it. So everything all the sales of this book goes to the kids who I met in the orphanage. Yeah, so we help them with water and food and education.

 

Bryn 

So is it so it’s not so much start at the start and looky and you can can

 

Suzanne Waldron 

it was written like that. And it’s also you could also write read it as a one page at a time. Go with your instinct see what comes up? Yeah. Yeah, so I’ve combined my observations and psychological study my behavioural study my philosophy for philosophical work that I do, as well as a bit of poetry and art in there as well.

 

 

is now published

 

Suzanne Waldron 

a lot of tears in that book. Yes,

 

Bryn 

yes. I noticed. I noticed on LinkedIn it was I was like,

 

 

it’s coming soon. No, it’s not. It’s coming soon.

 

Suzanne Waldron 

That’s been my life at this. took me years to write it. And then I got it done in 12 weeks, whipped it out. So it’s now here.

 

Bryn 

It’s now here. How do you feel when you finished it

 

Suzanne Waldron 

really emotional? Because I felt like I was having a relationship with this book. I was with it every morning. And it was, it was waking my giant top as well. And so when was that? And I’ll answer that in a second. And when it was the end of this, it felt in some ways that I was leaving it. And then I realised Of course, that’s not the case because it is in me and I am with it all the time. But I was like, I’m gonna be open with you every morning for weeks. And the waking of the giant for me is actually very quiet. It’s very quiet feeling. It’s a very tender, soft, deep knowing that I don’t have to prove or explain about in any way shape or form because the intention of my giant is Incredibly of service and a call in for others as well as myself so it feels quiet and soft to me

 

Bryn 

quiet and soft the degree of sort of parasite power the mass or massive it’s interesting because we we did speak before we switch this on about I think I made the comment about I’m just over resilience at the moment he went this is gonna be fun does that having tapped into your and then suddenly everybody you’re in a giant Do you now no longer almost see or feel the need for these almost like layers of armour protection, resilience in it’s currently being sold format, if that makes sense.

 

Suzanne Waldron 

So love Question from so I am so open and raw. I have very few layers anymore but like we were talking about you feeling like peeling back layers and, and not necessarily having to defend or to fight through all of these things are in front of us with that rawness and openness, and the less need to have barriers up, I find myself so open that I need to put some back up again. Yes. And so resilience for me is about protecting ourselves healthily, so that we don’t become a battleground with for others. And that resilience is really about vulnerability. And if you kind of get hit in the battlefield of some kind, you know that you just go care just have to like go back and just process and work it out. So that I can remain strong or help myself to build myself to be even, you know, more powerful or more connected or whatever that might be. So like, if you want to talk about residents being, you know, bouncing back or whatever, you can call it that. Yeah, I think resilience is actually about that deep strength that allows us to put healthy boundaries around us, but not barriers.

 

 

Yes.

 

 

Yeah. So

 

Suzanne Waldron 

you know, if we’re using superficial terms and words about that, and that helps meet people’s needs for where they’re at. I’m cool with that. 100%

 

 

and just to me

 

Bryn 

it’s almost a journey of from being done to in the world and then putting on a bit of armour to then go or space behind this armour I can, I can do but then the Dane Have this danger of wearing the armour too long, and then identifying with the armour, being fatigued by carrying it and stuff and then ultimately finding come to this place where I’m almost at I don’t know, whether it’s it’s almost like an expansive place where AI is the point of consciousness is just so much bigger than I anticipate or can deal with. And so therefore a collision with life about he said she said and stuff like that, that then triggers up a story in May is a story in May, that then creating this emotional response and I think having found a few tools of how learning has down regulate my nervous system and and trying to work that out with simple tremoring in movement and things like that has meant that I just have a talk about, about having a relationship and faith in something bigger than yourself. And there’s that something bigger than myself is me. The bigger version of me that I know is there. And so it means that I can collide and take few bruises, but they’re almost like superficial bruises in bruised on this layer, but not in this layer. Does that make sense?

 

 

Do you get around very

 

Suzanne Waldron 

resilient, like if you’re resilient in the urban dictionary? Yeah,

 

 

come on. toughen up. So I’ve got,

 

Suzanne Waldron 

like, some hope that something said, but it’s like, you’re resilient so that you don’t even absorb Hmm. And so true. Resilience is being open to absorption, but not hurt. Correct. And I don’t and it’s okay to be hurt. But I mean, the attack of hurt Yes. And so that’s where I think boundaries are really important. healthy boundaries about preservation are different. Two barriers which stop you from impairment? Yes, yes. And so it’s so true resilience for me is about is it’s a beautiful thing that you’ve just said, because it’s about being able to absorb and not be so tender or sensitive to the point where, you know, you’re just blocking all of the array of the octaves of the heart that we can play, you know. And you’re only getting half the experience because you’re just like, I’m a shield. Yes. And here’s my sword. Indeed. And so yes, I think we should have all of it, but we need to understand how to protect ourselves in a healthy way that allows us to be the best version of ourselves at any given time.

 

Bryn 

I think, inhabiting that state and also going back to what we’re talking about with speaking up and Okay, maybe not specifically focused at the victim say, but coming a bit out speaking up, is that I can then see and feel things on the horizon coming along, and it’s like, and so you can have a more easygoing conversation with people like, dude, I would If he didn’t continue that when it’s out there, because I know I can almost see where the trajectories coming in. And so we can have that conversation where it’s nice and early. So if it gets close, like we did talk about that, yeah.

 

Suzanne Waldron 

Just like helping human frame frame something so that there’s, well, that’s just setting intention, isn’t it? Yeah. You want to be treated in the contract of a relationship? Indeed. If that’s what you mean. Yeah. Fun stuff.

 

 

Last you want to talk about?

 

 

Well, let’s get some wine now.

 

Bryn 

Yeah, we covered quite a lot of it.

 

 

Yeah, yeah.

 

Bryn 

We’ve covered a large amount of it. Oh, here’s another one for you. Here we go with TEDx in a world of Coronavirus,

 

Suzanne Waldron 

TEDx Perth. It’s amazing. We have gone online for myself is raisins. And it’s quite lovely because what we’re doing is revisiting old talks that we’ve done with our speakers and then interviewing them online and getting much more participation happening with our TEDx Perth and Perth community. So it’s been really beautiful because we’re only early days on that. But it’s just a whole nother format that has been born from the necessity of going online. Yes, is creating more conversation and communication in our community. Awesome. So one of TEDx Perce major missions is to have more empathy in our community. And so it’s really nice to have more of a ability to have that participation with everyone and hear everyone’s voices not just some person on the stage. You know, that is is a one way communication, which also has its beauty. And this is just another format that allows a bit more of a two way conversations. It’s been fun designing that. Yeah.

 

 

I like that. Because,

 

Bryn 

yeah, a 15 minute presentation or 16 of them. Yeah, it’s pretty awesome and I came along which is Great work in Africa puts into it, but it can. Yeah, to be able to have that interaction with the person is wherever the value lies.

 

Suzanne Waldron 

There’s like so it’s just given us this diversity in how we approach the mission, which is not only spreading ideas with sharing, but it’s about helping us to really connect with our community. And yeah, but also have them connect to each other. So things happen more than spreading of empathy as well. So it’s not just ideas worth spreading. It’s almost like feelings as well. Yeah. Yeah. And being able to work together on things that help communities progress. So that’s, that’s been beautiful. Yeah. So yeah, the live events will come back as and when we can do them fully and properly. But for now, we’re really focusing on small live events probably come back a little bit sooner, the sell on events and the online salons as well. But it’s been fun designing like how we can make use of our technology in time.

 

Bryn 

Is that? Is that something TEDx Perth has done? Or is it in other TEDx is

 

Suzanne Waldron 

so Oh, yeah, definitely. So there’s a TEDx organisers group from around the world that we get to sit with and share ideas with each other and examples of how people have been doing different things. So TEDx purse format is unique to itself, so that we haven’t seen another version of what we’re doing in the way that we’re doing it. And but there’s plenty of different other TEDx is that are doing all sorts of different versions of their own ideas, which are cool.

 

Bryn 

So what are some of the other formats,

 

Suzanne Waldron 

and some of them are more camera speaking. So if I was doing a TEDx talk, I’d be doing it to camera life, yeah, or a pre recorded version of it. And it’s just as simple as that. Whereas Ours is a lot more interactive. So we’re playing an old talk and then creating breakout rooms to discuss the talk, and then doing a q&a with the speaker, about the gap between where they did the talk and where we are now. And then asking the community questions about what they also Want to know from the speaker, and then getting back into breakout rooms to discuss the ideal version of what they’ve just explained and explained or had explained with them. So it’s been quite lovely to have this very. So it’s a synced hour. And with little sections in it that are really sort of cool for people to convert Converse rather than just absorb. So most of the others, I think what we’ve seen is a traditional sort of spiel, and maybe a q&a, but not the actual breakout rooms and participation

 

 

is pretty cool, because

 

Bryn 

the challenge, the challenge has started to notice with not just like Ted and TEDx, but other things where probably comes back to our you know, our whole thing of online coaches and stuff like that is in go to these cheesy motivating events, feel the buzz or get the mental stimulation and it’s awesome for the day you sit you receive and you do the thing.

 

 

Then what happens next

 

 

is exactly our question. What happens next?

 

Suzanne Waldron 

Yeah. So we’ve been looking at that for quite a long time. That’s why salons came in May. So we love our flagship event. You just get round about 2000 people. It’s, it’s quite the show. And in our breakout spaces with when we’re curating and designing, we’re looking to how much can we utilise the space when people are away from the stage in conversing or playing with things or you’re trying to work out problems together in lunch and break times. And we also do the breakfasts and the after the show sort of activities as well to get people connected, but the salons, idea specific so the big Ted stage stuff is is really varied across an entire, you know, big tech, emotional connection to humanity, social justice. You might then look at environmental stuff or big data, and science and arts, and so it has a really big spread across all Yeah, listing the salons you get to go right, we want to talk about plants. Yeah, we want to talk about science. And we want to so I did the one that I did most recently in this was sex, love and relationships. So we talked really deeply about that for a minute. And then we did another one about astrology. And there’s another one about the sharing economy. And another one about language. And so we have three speakers for that. But there’s a lot more interaction between the organisation in terms of the people on stage, but also then the people in the room. And so that just so this format is even more intimate and even more connected to participation. So it’s just lovely to be able to have different versions of different sorts of interactions enable people to grow their own sense of what they can do, rather than just talking about it. And so we’re continuously talking in our in our meetings about how we can help people do more, not just absorb more.

 

 

Yeah, Love it.

 

Bryn 

Love it, love it. As I start to tell in a podcast, I often Ask people. So what have you learned about yourself recently? But it’s difficult to ask you that because you’ve been asking me all the questions.

 

 

So the question, I’m still gonna ask the question, maybe I’ll ask you the question. And

 

 

I can say no from time to time,

 

Bryn 

and some of you really learned about yourself recently.

 

Suzanne Waldron 

I am far more an introvert than I realised. And I am a little bit more obsessed with the economy than I realised as well. When the economy Yeah, like I’m a closet introvert and a closet economist.

 

Bryn 

introvert will Yeah, that’ll be obvious given what’s been going on. so grateful obvious

 

Suzanne Waldron 

to me.

 

 

Yeah. Yeah, I really

 

 

like it.

 

Suzanne Waldron 

And that was, I was spinning wheels going fast, you know? Yeah. And then it doesn’t necessarily mean it’s a natural state, isn’t I and I actually think it might have been a part of a mask for me. And so I didn’t really realise that as much because I’m still curious and you know, outgoing, and I need people and I love all that, so I’m still definitely part of an extrovert, but I’m more introverted than I realised. And I need more time to absorb and to process and to clean myself know, my neurology and my thinking, the things that I’ve been stimulated by during the day, and I don’t get that opportunity to connect the dots and to claim, you know, and then because you get information coming in, then you react to that information. But then I think we’re missing the third step, which is a space to actually then be able to do something with that. And then we clean enough to really create something, which is your space. And so I’ve learned that about myself and I did not know that. Yes, I’m better when I’m quieter. Hmm.

 

 

Is it you or is it

 

Bryn 

is not all of us going through the four steps and

 

 

I cannot wait Yeah,

 

Suzanne Waldron 

yeah. You know if I was to guess, I think that’s true for everybody. It just depends on how much

 

Bryn 

how much Yeah.

 

Suzanne Waldron 

I think it would be really good. Everyone slowed the fuck down

 

 

by the fact there has to

 

 

have fucking it. But yeah, I think

 

Bryn 

I’ve been toying with the idea that we should for years to come in when we come out of this for years to come. We should always have a coronavirus fortnight with everything.

 

 

Isn’t that Christmas? Because it doesn’t. No, no,

 

 

no, because it doesn’t used to. Yeah.

 

Bryn 

You know, I said, I sent someone recently that when I was at school, I used to love snow days. Because I like the disruption because I was at a school where everything was like scheduled and unscheduled and done and didn’t. So whenever that schedule, that regular pattern of life is disrupted Easter love snow days, and then obviously snow days, early at school, but then working in England as well. Those days when the lights came down, so I can’t go The car can’t come to work can’t do this. And so this is just brilliant. I love disruption, stop, just stop and then just do the things that are most important. Is is art for you a key part of that? Slow In fact,

 

 

they’re definitely

 

Bryn 

doing something for just doing it so not because it necessarily has an outcome.

 

Suzanne Waldron 

Yeah, it’s the thing that I sort of refuse to have a contract on. And so writing has a contract on it and the work that I do with behavioural change has a contract on it and art However, if people want to commission me, they can commission me but good luck with what will happen. Yeah, if you’re okay with the fact that it’s gonna turn out whoever policy and all of that, you know, just don’t pay me if you don’t like it. That’s where I’ve gotten to and all the money goes to the orphanage anyway, so I can I just don’t want to exchange money for that right now. Yeah, it’s a place where I don’t have expectations or need to deliver or perform or, you know, that sort of thing. So for us For me is just it really consumes that moment. And it’s hard to think of anything else. Hmm. I love it.

 

Bryn 

Present. Yeah. And doing things for just doing things

 

Suzanne Waldron 

without having to have this needed outcome.

 

 

Mm hmm. If I do this, then I will get

 

 

less.

 

Suzanne Waldron 

Yeah. Which I’m really grappling with for us all, I think is we need to change that somehow.

 

Bryn 

It’s back to predictable outcomes and needing to know and control.

 

Suzanne Waldron 

And I do I do, I do realise there’s a place for it, but we’ve just gone to the extreme. It’s another version of extremism.

 

Bryn 

So last question, I asked all my guests nowadays, then if I asked you this at that time, is if you could take one little nugget of information and drop it into the collective consciousness so everyone just gets it or that

 

 

question.

 

Suzanne Waldron 

I’m going to repeat somebody else. This is what Christopher said to me when we’re in Africa. Because I said to him, Do you ever lose hope? Do you ever because I was bawling my eyes out all the time I cry all the time. And do you ever lose hope this man has lived and grown up in a slum, you know? And he said, very quietly, he just thought and he turned, he looked at me. And he just said, Well, you know, you know, I just couldn’t access it. I was just so you know, how can you How can you of all people not lose hope? And he said, because there’s always the opportunity to do one thing about one thing. Mm hmm. And that sat with me beautifully, because it takes the pressure off needing to know everything. Yeah. And the ability to sort of think about There’s always something that can be done, even if it’s just one thing about one thing. And he didn’t lose hope, because he trusted and had faith that there was always just another tiny step to be taken. Yeah. And so just do one thing about one thing

 

 

that’s having some big faith, isn’t it?

 

Bryn 

Faith itself, we don’t really dive in too much warmer, spinning the wheels really quickly.

 

Suzanne Waldron 

Exactly. And to you know, faith can be about anything. Faith can be a universal faith, faith in myself and my family faith in God. You know, however you want faith to do that, but faith is about trust, ultimately, and it’s about something bigger than you. Yes. And I think we’ve idolised ourselves for so long as the first time in human history have we ever actually thought of ourselves as so responsible for both our successes and our failures? We have never worshipped ourselves before. This is the first time and so There’s this old heritage in us. I think that’s worth calling upon a little bit. And that is about worshipping outside of ourselves. Yes. To be able to maintain a deeper hope and connection outside of our own importance.

 

Bryn 

Add previous podcast guest big, big strong blog, who, right in the middle of Coronavirus, was saying he’s from originally from Iran. And he put it really eloquently said if you haven’t resolved your relationship with the man upstairs, also bigger than you right now. You’re gonna be felt

 

Suzanne Waldron 

it will be very confronting.

 

Bryn 

It will be very confronting. It is not something bigger than yourself in your life. Yeah. That you commune with. Yeah. It’s been awesome. Thank you. If people want to reach out and find The boat failed

 

 

to even realise it was there.

 

 

I love it.

 

 

There you go. Where can they find you?

 

 

Somewhere in the usa.com

 

 

all the way here. Yeah.

 

 

Yeah, but there’s a problem is like whatever. Yeah, it’s been useful

 

 

to find me.

 

Bryn 

Yeah, me too. And one of the things I’ve stopped doing with the podcast is getting so caught up on the outcome of things and enjoying the call.

 

Suzanne Waldron 

It’s been beautiful. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for bringing it into the world. It’s lovely. It was hug

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