#165 Co-Dependency: Why you accept Narcissism in the world – Richard Grannon

This week, I follow the line of inquiry into just how we accept and enable narcissism in our society with Richard Grannon.

Richard puts forward that co-dependency, or people pleasing, is a master-slave dynamic that has been deeply in trained and entranced within culture and society at large. That this is an unseen issue that is more pervasive than narcissism. Richard asserts that if we’re to crack the puzzle of the pervasive presence of narcissism in society, then we need to bring our perspective closer to home and have an honest look at how we’re actively accepting and enabling it.

Through the conversation, we go into the dynamics and mechanics of co-dependency in depth across a variety of areas of life providing a number of clear examples including how you’re governed, consumerist capitalism, slave morality and many more.

Through all of this, you will begin to gain a deeper understanding of your own co-dependency, or people pleasing, tendencies and why you’ve become so conflict adverse and unable to say no leaving you in very much an infantilised state.

This is a fascinating conversation and it was a real privilege and honour to speak to Richard. What is most impressive is his ability to articulate, with a great humour, much of why you have such an deep uneasy feeling about life currently.

I can’t say it is easy listening because much of what Richard has to say is very triggering, but when you do find yourself arguing and strongly disagreeing with him then I would suggest X marks the spot for greater personal inquiry.

Read Full Transcript

Bryn 

This week, I continue the line of inquiry into just what enables narcissism at large in our society. with Mr. Richard Grannon.

 

Richard puts forward that codependency or people pleasing is a master slave dynamic that has been deeply in trained and entranced within us. And he puts forward that this is a bigger, more pervasive, unseen, yet felt issue is bigger than narcissism. And then if we’re to crack the code of narcissism, then we need to come out bigger and wider and start to look at how we end up enabling it.

 

We go into the dynamics and mechanics of this in depth across a variety of areas of life and a great number of examples whether it’s the way the government speaks to us, the way we talked to ourselves, and also going further into consumerist capitalism, and how we have been trained over decades to buy stuff we really don’t need.

 

Through all of this, you really begin to understand the dynamics of codependency or people pleasing and how we’ve become almost conflict or awkward, emotionally adverse and how shame and guilt has been further used as a tool to beat ourselves and how we’ve become unable to say no. And thus, leaving is like abundance of infants and children, wondering and questioning when the adults going to show up.

 

Richard also puts forward that the way forwards is to unplug from this strange reality. that we’ve created and start to plug with the to plug into a true reality, our authentic self, starting to say no, and really dealing with legitimate suffering and collision in life. But also that the way out of this is inevitable, and not to get over agitated within ourselves and get caught up too much with the narratives that we see on social media.

 

This is a fascinating, fascinating podcast. And it was a real privilege and a treat and an honour for me to be able to speak to Richard. He’s someone whose work I’ve been following for some time. And I’m just so impressed with the way he’s able to articulate with a great sense of humour, much of what I have been feeling uneasy about and starting to be able to talk about but not quite, and I feel sure that it will resonate with many others.

 

I can’t say it’s good be easy listening. And if you don’t get triggered during it, I’ll be surprised. If you do find yourself getting triggered. No, this is not me. I’m not a conformist, then maybe X marks the spot for greater personal inquiry.

 

Bryn

Hello and well back to WA Real I’m your host Bryn Edwards. Today I have the great pleasure of welcoming, Richard Grannon onto the show. Richard, welcome.

 

Richard Grannon 

Thank you very much for having me. It’s a pleasure to be here.

 

Bryn 

Indeed. pleasures all mine. I’ve been a big fan and admirer of your work for some time. So for those who are uninitiated to the world of Richard Grannon

 

Richard Grannon 

and it is a painful, it is

 

Bryn 

it is a triggering initiation. purposeful benevolent triggering. He’s a psychologist life coach through your company, Spartan life coach, specialising in helping people to rebuild themselves after they very much come second in an encounter with Narcissists. Is that a fair summary of your work?

 

Richard Grannon 

It is indeed Your Honour, it is a fair summary of my misdeeds.

 

Bryn 

So first question because I always like to place what people do in the relevance and so people get to know you. Why is this work particularly relevant to you yourself, Richard?

 

Richard Grannon 

And my background? Well, I was always interested in psychology from a very, very early age. And and for on and off for 15 years I worked in the security industry doing nightclub security, and also worked as a trainer and a self defence instructor and a control and restraint tactics instructor which is, as we were saying before the interview is what led me to Perth a couple of times to teach there were never By where you are. And so self protection was was been my life’s work is teaching people how to protect themselves. And at a certain point I realised that with a lot of the guys and girls I was training you know, like tactical firearms instructors, bodyguards and soldiers and tough girls and tough guys. Moses consistent theme of them being in abusive relationships. And I it was so statistically high that it couldn’t be coincidental. So the project was called Street Fight secrets calm. It was teaching psychology, self defence control and restraint tactics, but then I branched off with something called Spartan life coach calm that was just for them. It was to help them overcome the problems in their relationships and to learn to assert themselves. So these are people who could shoot you in the head, but they can’t say no, in a supermarket queue if somebody pushes in front of them. So that that was was the fairly isn’t it? It’s insane and it’s, it’s the norm. It’s actually that’s that’s the average. That’s the norm. So if you see people who are doing something that looks very imposing from whatever, bodybuilding powerlifting, MMA, whatever, you’ll see people pleasers and codependence beneath the surface of that macho veneer.

 

Bryn 

Also. So one of the reasons why I really wanted to speak to you particularly at this time is because there’s a number of things but they all sort of seem to come together for me. There’s, there’s and you’ve already started to mention it. They’re people pleasers and codependence in particular. But, you know, as a couple of weeks ago, I ended up speaking to Professor Sam bagnet. And you’ve done videos and work with I have some of you have you recovered, and it took me a couple of days to process it.

 

Richard Grannon 

It does. It does take I’ve told you So I’ve said to him like sometimes when I’m talking to you, it takes about two or three days to recover from what it does

 

Bryn 

do you know without, without seeing a little bit of myself, honestly patting myself on the back the next day for staying in that conversation for two hours?

 

Richard Grannon 

Yeah. So you did you did very well. You did you did very, very well. I watched the whole thing. I watched the very closely I listen very carefully. And you did you did? Well, it is it is. But it’s, you know, Sam will really take you on a journey and he pulls no punches.

 

Bryn 

Yeah. And he’s, I think we’re doing round two in a couple of months.

 

 

So God have mercy on yourself.

 

Bryn 

Indeed, indeed. But one of the most interesting things I got a lot of response, I got a lot of messages but one of the interesting things I started to see was this whole Yes, that is the nasty nasty system that is that person over there and they are just evil and I am good and and they just came in and preyed upon me and And it just strikes me that there’s a bigger issue at play. There’s always a flip side to this narcissism, which is very much around this urge to people please and be codependent. You know, why? Why do we willingly let these people into our lives and do the things that they do? And so I wondered if just to start with, you know, so we started that micro level so we can build it out to a bigger macro level. Mm hmm. Can you run me through what is people pleasing? How was the mechanics and dynamics? How does it come about and how does it play out? Yeah, and

 

Richard Grannon 

the one of the, just to close the loop on on on Sam For a second there. The recurring theme that I’ve had speaking to Sam over the years, goes back to the first time I interviewed him in 2014 has a YouTube video called NASA phobia and we were talking about About the very close relationship between codependence and the victims of narcissistic abuse the prey and the predator and their strong desire to disavow and to deny any sort of responsibility and yes along doing and I think one of the very challenging things and Sam, Sam comes back to this frequently to recurrent theme and and I’ve come back to it in the last six weeks or so is in order to crack the code on codependency, we really have to look at all of what that means. And we are not. We are not at the polar opposite end of a spectrum to narcissist as codependence, we are more a mirror image a symmetrical mirror image to narcissists. So as I sort of put put forward what codependency is, I want people to understand my stances that actually we’ve were raised in In a very similar environment, probably the same environment as the NPD. It’s just our response to it is different. So, codependency people pleaser syndrome, a pronounced form response to use the cptsd terminology. Yes, would be as a result of being raised in an abusive environment, if you acquire it in adulthood, which is rare, it must be an environment where you feel you cannot escape or you effectively cannot escape. So an abusive or a relationship can do this, but you must be living with the person being stuck in a present being stuck in an institution being stuck in boarding school as we both were. Both of these can can do this boarding school effectively in trains codependency, as does the military, and we can thank the French and the Brits. We can thank our ancestors for that. This is a very deliberate process. That’s why the infantry is called the infantry because their purpose is to infantilize the soldier And to treat them as children. The infantry were always frontline cannon fodder. I didn’t find this out until years after I applied to the army I wanted to join them I want to join the Parachute Regiment. And I realised years later that actually that was an extension of my abusive childhood environment and then boarding school and then my private school education all of which is there to break the child spirit and make me codependent on higher authority it’s extremely cruel and very overt I mean, it’s not there isn’t really much effort to hide there because they don’t need to hide that because you who they’re going to get in trouble with. Nobody’s gonna nobody’s gonna, nobody’s gonna tell them off. So you end up codependency is a kind of trauma bonding into a master slave dynamic. So if your parents told you to shut up and do as you were told as a child, you will develop a slave Like mentality and you will seek masters for the rest of your life. This is why the Special Air Services and proudly call themselves pilgrims. You know, they’re pilgrims seeking a master. It’s based on a poem. And I’ve discussed this with Special Forces guys. I’m like, Do you realise the brainwashing and they’re like, yep, yeah. PTSD and combat veterans now is so high, not because of the violence they’ve experienced, I claim but because so many combat veterans are waking up to just how cruel procedure they’ve they’ve been through and just how much deception they’ve been at the receiving end of so that’s a way of in training codependency.

 

Bryn 

Yes. And so how, how does it actually play out in an everyday scenario as grown up

 

Richard Grannon 

And it will not it’s it’s rare that that a codependent person is codependent all the time. So, there will be particular contexts and particular people with whom we are codependent. So, there are trigger contexts and trigger figures, authority figures typically, how that plays out as a neurotic desire to avoid any and all conflict, not conflict perceived in the other, but conflict perceived subjectively. So, we become hyper agreeable, we say yes to things that we should not be saying yes to no becomes verboten. harami word as I know is not on the table, whatever they say, I’m going to do it. And then we hyper vigilantly and proactively seek for ways to serve, because it’s not enough that we’re slaves. We want to be super slaves. We want to be the best slave that master has ever had. Yes.

 

Bryn 

We wear our hard work as a badge of honour. Exactly, exactly. So, you’ve got these people who are how prevalent would you say this is in society nowadays?

 

Richard Grannon 

I think it’s a much bigger problem than narcissism. I, I agree with Sam that narcissism has become an organising principle of modern culture. And, and it’s, you know, to the extent that people really the majority of humans in in Western culture can only relate to each other narcissistically we are kind of facing like a zombie apocalypse or narcissism. But the broader problem, I think, is actually if everybody in a society is an asset, nobody’s an asset. So Sam frequently used the example of Nazi Germany and I’m like, Yes, Nazi Germany, but imagine being on the inside of Nazi Germany. narcissistic psychopathy doesn’t exist. You’re just you’re just a good nap. You’re not a narcissistic, you’re not sick. You’re only sick. If you show empathy you’re only sick if you don’t violently believe and courageously dominating the lands around you’re up and killing everybody that then you’re sick you’re the sick one. So this the the situation we face now is narcissism is still a relevant term because I do think there’s still a minority NPD is still a minority. So then the majority is codependent. Well, then how does narcissism play out? narcissism can only play out if there is a minority exploiter and a majority exploited. You know, if we’re all refusing to say no, and we’ve all abrogated to because codependency is an addiction that becomes addictive. We become addicted to abrogating the responsibility of our own authenticity and abrogating the responsibility of our adulthood. So if you are looking around as many of us are, we look at our politicians. We look at our systems of governance we look at the corporations and we are the fucking adults. What? Who’s in charge here? Yeah, yeah. So so many people have made the mistake I think of saying that’s narcissism they’ve all fallen prey to narcissism. That’s part of the puzzle, the bigger piece of the puzzle there’s no they fallen prey to codependency because we’re all now in train to abrogate our responsibility as adults. It’s much easier in a certain sense to live as a slave. A slave doesn’t make choices. A slave doesn’t have the burden and responsibility. A slave doesn’t have the stress of agency and regret. Because whilst we’re capable of regret, it’s not our fault. Nothing is our fault. So this is what yeah, this is where you get the problem that you saw, which is I’m a martyr I’m blameless. Oh, they they the narcissist the narcissist that when you just look at people you go really you had no say in this you had. You didn’t make it. Packed with the devil, you didn’t trade anything. You got no benefit whatsoever from this relationship, not me, not me. And I’m like, Come on, let’s be aware of yourself. Let’s not abrogate this responsibility to be adults. It’s hard to be an adult. And we live in an infantilizing environment that wants us all to be useful idiots. What I think has happened though, so often happens in human endeavour is the the machine takes over. So we build machines to to serve us. Yeah. And then we ultimately end up serving the machine. And which I I suspect was in 2001 Space Odyssey the Stanley Kubrick movie, I think that was what the the monolith actually is. It’s the it’s an it’s the people said it’s technology is technology. But I think the warning there is whatever we build It, it becomes infused with our unconscious drives. And once it’s externalised and infused with unconscious drives, it pulls darkness out of us and it actually doesn’t lead anywhere. Good. So I think what happened here is a group of people, a group of people, conspiracy time, and people with money, people who are running PR campaigns people who were the captains of industry. I think it was financial. I don’t I don’t think it’s anything spookier than just financial gains. people hire men, like Freud’s grandson Edward Bernays and say, how do we make people buy more? How do we make them a bay, they formed this wonderful, effective ideology and a machine. But the machine that those men died, and the machine kept running, and it kept growing, and brainwashing people to feed the beast

 

 

just became

 

Richard Grannon 

what? That’s what we do. That’s what everybody does. Yeah. And so when I say unconscious here, I’m not really so much talking about the Freudian and the Jung Eun unconscious where the drives go in the cellar, and then they pop back out. What I’m talking about is a thing that is not conscious but exists. It has impact, but we’re not aware of it. And the closest word I think they really exist for his ideology, but it’s not quite right. Because it has gravity. It has a it’s like a wave that has a weight and it’s moving in a direction. And I think that’s where we are now. The other thing, the unconscious, the beast, the machine that we build is now dragging us in a direction we really don’t want to go. And I’m not sure anybody who’s running it. I don’t think there’s a few men at the top of that wearing cloaks cackling and going Haha, we finally dominated humanity. I think it’s a few people who were riding the wave, who might think that they’re in control of it, but it’s too big now. So huge wave. I don’t think anybody can really control

 

Bryn 

that kind of, for want of a better phrase shits on any idea that there’s like this small elite running the world. And

 

Richard Grannon 

I mean, people you can point to it, can’t we? Because you know, if you’re on social media, you’ll have seen the meme going round of just how much Mark Zuckerberg gates Bezos made just in the last four months as a result of this situation that we’re in. Yeah. And people, people jumped to the conclusion well, that means calm hoc ergo propter hoc with this, therefore, because of this, they did it. It’s a cui Bono. They must have. And I am tempted by that, but then I think, I don’t think I don’t think anybody is in charge of this. I think they’re just riding the wave. I think they’re surfing the wave. I think they’re bright guys. But they’re not. Yeah, I don’t think there’s a secret cabal that’s making this happen. I think there was even a problem. They say again, it’s converting lenient for them to be for all the

 

Bryn 

size evens that I had with the business system. They’re all naughty and I’m all good. Right? Which,

 

Richard Grannon 

yes, again abrogation of responsibility, who you know, you get fat and you assume McDonald’s was McDonald’s come around your house putting a gun to your face and saying eat this, you know, high calorie, low nutrition food. No, but they made it delicious and tasty. So whose fault is that? You know, and who’s making me spend five hours on Instagram a day? Nobody’s forcing me to do that. Yeah. So like you say, yes, it’s easier to say, Oh, they they did this. And I think that’s a codependent response. Because if you’re codependent, you’re the ultimate victim. If you’re a slave and you’re born into slavery, it’s like, not my fault. And then you get that sort of archetype of the conspiracy theorist who’s on employed to do just plays video games, smoked weed all day. And you go, why don’t you do something with your life and they go, Well, you know, then it’d be so Serving the man man. And it’s like no, actually, you’re just fucking lazy. You’re using this as an excuse. It’s a, it’s a post hoc excuse for what you already want to do. So I do think again, yes, you’re right, that sort of like pointing at people and going into them. It’s their fault. It’s the same as the codependence or the victims of narcissistic abuse saying the narcissist that to me, Well, where’s your responsibility? Like? Are you saying no? are you refusing to go along with that? Or do you just chug along with that? What are you really, you know, what, what about you? And this is desert, there’s a bit of a fight here. And it’s a really good way of provoking people online, is you push their responsibility back onto them and you go, No, actually, this is your responsibility. It’s a great way of losing subscribers and starting online fights, I can assure you,

 

Bryn 

which I’m sure amuses you.

 

 

Every every couple of months.

 

Richard Grannon 

Responsibility take over your life. getting too many subscribers, I need to

 

Bryn 

get that down again. And how did we get to this place where I love the phrase, there just seems to be no adults left. I mean, I’m 45 years old. And, you know, for a long time during my 20s and 30s, I still sort of felt like a boy for one of a better phrase, still trying to figuring things out. And then all of recent all of a sudden, recently in the last two or three years of possibly through doing the podcast, possibly because you know, understanding, you know, like Young’s work more, I’m going through that second phase of individuation and I’m going from the morning of life and I’m sort of leaving the lunchtime and entering the afternoon of life and doing it gracefully, rather than kicking and screaming,

 

Richard Grannon 

you have a pleasant afternoon.

 

Bryn 

snooze first. It just struck me recently. It’s like from time to time, I look around You know, I do have a pre digital memories like when when when are the grown ups going to show up and and actually say this, everything that’s going on is fucking barking then and then all of a sudden recently I’ve looked looked around and looked inside and felt shit. I think I’m the grown up now. Right? And it feels kind of lonely.

 

Richard Grannon 

Yeah, yeah, it’s frightening. It’s frightening. And it’s the moment of realisation that nobody’s coming to save me. Nobody’s coming to save ash. I made them be the most competent person in the room right now. And I know I’m a fucking idiot. I know because I live with myself. 24 seven.

 

Bryn 

That’s exactly it. You know? And, you know, we’ve all been we’ve all been sucked in by, you know, delivering, we you know, we all have a need to know because then it uses control. And then you know, sales and marketing of sell have preyed upon And soldiers predictable outcomes, you know, do the six week course and then you’ll get the ABS or, you know, come into my mindset coaching course and then you’ll be from here to here, but just it just doesn’t work like that. And and now it’s like who’s gonna fucking say something

 

Richard Grannon 

which is which is which is a great question along with how did we get here which is that yeah sorry you know it’s a kind of like I turned people off with this because I say it’s consumer capitalism. I’m not a communist. I believe in free trade and competition and red blooded I think selling is a great thing to do. I think developing a product and selling it is a good thing for human beings to do. I think it’s a worthy activity if it’s done righteously. While the majority of it isn’t done righteously and marketing and sales and PR and media mean my god what a fucking SAS pet the all these fields have become media media is just awful. It’s gotten to the point now where I blanket refuse requests from any mainstream media outlet. And because I’ve had such bad experiences with a member once with once with radio for they gave me a fair shake and the guy was the guy was cool, but he was he had his own independent thing. And then he made it and then he’d sell it to radio for but other than that awful scumbags total, narcissistic psychopathic scum, and they’re ranking highly in the media. So people come to me and they go, Oh, this was written in the papers and I’m like, you have no idea what what’s behind the scenes there. These are not good humans. And these are not lovers of humanity. The the people that I met, who were producers and moderately high ranking in mainstream media in the UK and in America. Loads of people, they load humans, they think humans are scum. They think that we’re idiots, and that our only purpose is to be treated as capital, which is why the media looks like it. Because the people who are running it, they’re not kind they’re not there their impetus is not how do we educate and how do we bring dignity back to humanity? And how do we know they’re like, how do we make people angry, scared and frightened today? Because anger fear will induce obedience. And it’s just if the mainstream media is just the slave masters whip cracking you across the mind and the emotions every day, that’s all it’s there for. That’s all all it’s therefore it’s for nothing else, but deception and fear, and then the inducement of obedience. So I would say to people watching this Be very, very careful what you let inside of your brain as far as the mainstream Immediate goes, and but to the broader question of what brought us here when I’m talking about consumer capitalism, I’m talking about not fair trade in the marketplace. I have fine carrots here. Please come and buy them at a reasonable price. Yeah, I’m talking about object fetishism. I’m talking about a deliberate and conscious decade’s long effort to convince people to buy things that they don’t need. I’m talking about a deliberate decade’s long effort to take money back from people. I think we live inside of a slave plantation, I think for you and really listening. We’re all slaves. We live in a feudal society where peasants, we don’t have money. It’s an illusion. We have beads were allowed to trade inside the plantation, our little bits of beads, and they keep taking it back. They pay you and then they take it back. They take it back on your fuel. They take a backhoe in your clothes, they take it back on your rent. Everything we do is taxed. We can’t be fat without being taxed. So they go, here you go slave. I’ve paid you. Here’s your beads go drinking, because it’s massively tax going smoke, it’s massively tax going to. It’s all tax. It’s all tax back. And I think it’s just to give us the illusion of freedom. We’re just slaves in a plantation telling ourselves that we’re free. And they figured this out. I can’t remember the author’s name. Now they figured this out. Centuries ago. They’re like, it’s actually cheaper to have the slaves police each other, and Doctor each other and rent to each other than it is for us to look after them. This was written by the way I think it’s Adam Smith the rotor when he wrote it, it was it was a back in the 1700s. You wrote it, it’s cheaper to have the slaves take care of themselves than for us to look after them. Yeah,

 

Bryn 

yeah. And now, we seem to have I hate using the word weaponize. But now we seem to have this use of shame and guilt, particularly at the moment and like

 

Richard Grannon 

you No Beagle boys and girls do the right thing and stay inside and and then all of a sudden we see other people who have not done the right thing. And now he’s starting to grass on people. And and this and it seems like we’re using shaming guilt as well now as a really big tool. Absolutely these are these are the most powerful tools an adult can leverage against the child and the stack of shame and the weapon of guilt. Because you know, I could beat you up every time you do something wrong but beating you ties my beating on my weapon gets calluses I got I got tired of that. But if I can train you to beat yourself up for doing wrong, there you go. That’s the slave mastering itself. And I think that’s, that’s the trick that’s being played. That’s why we’re being spoken to like children. That’s why guilt and shame is being so much now. To me. It feels like there’s a desperate To this, I think we are in. I think they think we’re in the final phases of a control system. It’s on the verge of collapse. I don’t think you can keep doing this to people and think that they’re just gonna go along with that forever,

 

Bryn 

you know?

 

Richard Grannon 

Well, yeah, I know the type of thing you’re talking about. I can’t think of anything off the top of my head. But I’ve seen adverts around the UK and around Europe. And we’re in this together. Do the right thing. Be nice. Do as you’re told, because it’s the nice thing to do. And if you don’t, you’re not nice. I’m like, I don’t remember signing up to being nice. was being nice. Should I be nice? That’s codependency. Being nice and being the best slave you can becomes a virtue. Not to sound like nature. But this is what nature was complaining about. These things are not virtues. Obedience isn’t a virtue. Humility isn’t a virtue not really supplicating to another person and being the best slave. You can These are not these are not virtues he called it. He called it a slave morality. He said this is a slave morality is not a real moral system. It’s not a it’s not a system of virtues and values. It’s an artificial system of virtues and values to keep you in your slave state and telling yourself No, I’m a good person. Why? Because I guess the masters are better than anywhere else can.

 

 

Whoop dee doo.

 

 

And

 

Bryn 

recently, I’ve also been sort of diving in, as I said, mentioned earlier, I’m diving into more of the work of a young and it’s Can you see the bigger psyche sort of getting to a point where it guys or kids you I’ve left, I’ve left your conscious brain in charge for a while and it’s not doing the thing. I’m going to I’m going to come in And sort some of this out. And this is sort of internally, collectively because, you know, one of the things that I find is as we get to that latter 30s 40s, early 40s stage, we get to almost like the, the apex of the individual power. And then all of a sudden, everything you’ve tried to be and not be, then everything sort of catches up with you and you plunge back into your shadow. But it strikes me that many of the things that have helped us collectively hold our identity from an external point of view, latching on to structures even they’re like the control, you’re saying they’re starting to fall to pieces. And so it strikes me that there’s almost an inevitability of the collapse. But then it’s the faith of having a rise of something bigger the human spirit within us. Do you see where I’m going with them?

 

Richard Grannon 

Yeah, I do. I do. I think that if If you keep pushing people and you keep torturing people psychologically eventually they will become exhausted and they will collapse and we’re seeing that the suicide rates through the roof like anxiety depression, alcohol abuse, drug abuse through the roof. But and I’m not naive idealist here I’m really not

 

Bryn 

know why this question wasn’t for me to try and cling on to a little bit of hope.

 

Richard Grannon 

Yeah, no, no. I think in the most real authentic existentialist, nihilistic way, there will be a spiritual awakening but for people listening please take away all new age overtones from that spiritual awakening in this context would mean let’s say a psychological awakening more in a younger incense. And that we are worshipping fetishes, we are worshipping false gods.

 

 

That

 

Richard Grannon 

is certain sense our adolescence is over, that there is no heaven. There is no hell there are no angels. There are no demons. There’s no God, there’s no devil. There is this. And that is all that there is. And I’m not trying to take people’s faith away from them. When I when I talk about angels, demons, Heaven and Hell, I mean, ideologically. I mean, we are trapped in a story that is, Richard is born, and he has his birth certificate number, his national insurance numbers, passport number, and then he’s this thing that goes through life that consumes the truck holidays that bought a house, was it a big house was a little house. How hard did he work? Did he have a degree? Did he Jerome saying it’s all viewed for the capitalist lens? capital means stuff, folks. It’s not complicated. They’re trying to make it come capital mean stuff. So if you’re a capitalist, you’re a stuff so If you watch the walking dead, it became a meme. Whenever Rick said, get your stuff in your things that was your capital. So if you’re in the zombie apocalypse and you’re in a shotgun in a backpack with beans in, that’s your capital, when he confronts neguin neguin, saying, Give me half your shit. So that’s capitalism meets tyrannical communism, give me or die, give me or be or be tortured. And it’s really simple. It’s it’s, it’s so when we’re viewing through a capitalist lens, we’re viewing through a materialist lens. We’re saying this stuff that I can hold in my hand matters. This is what matters. And I think the hard psychological awakening will be no, no, it doesn’t. Never did. The story doesn’t matter. The stuff doesn’t matter. None of that matters. But like all spiritual awakenings, I call psychological awakenings. will be painful, there will be a mighty screen and there will be a scarring. And tattooing. You know, in all initiation ceremonies across the globe is supposed to get initiated about 13 years old. So here’s me and you and our forces, I kind of feel like I might be starting to be a man. Now, that was taken place a very long time ago. But this is this is where we’re at. So, what will be the scarring, the scarring will be when the kids have all their toys taken away from them, which is on the horizon, a lot of our toys will be will be taken away from us. A lot of the things that we’re very attached to a lot of the things that we think are important will be taken away. And then we’ll go through a process of production where we’ll be asked, well what is actually important what is good, we’re so brainwashed we don’t know what is good, what’s not twitching, brainwashed, poisoned little wretched Golem addict creatures. We have no idea what’s good. Well, when it’s all gone, then you’ll see the sun is is good. Going to sleep is good. Being with other humans is good. Good. Was that was anything ever better than that? No. I loved my PlayStation. I loved my Instagram. No, it was horseshit. It was just mental illness. You were tricked. You were trained to, to feel that way. And I’m pretty extreme on this stuff. I believe that Santa Claus and Christmas as a way of trauma bonding people to object fetishism from an early age, because I remember not giving a fuck. I remember being utterly bewildered by Christmas. I was like, what are we doing? We’re exchanging presents Don’t you love presence and I was I not really I like it when you focus on screaming at each other all the time and terrifying me. That’s when I like it when you’re not hitting me. That’s fun. And then it was all this weird stuff with like, the the highly colourful wrapping and the colours on the train. I was I on the weird music and then this strange figure that comes through the chimney and visits the outside, this is some creepy horseshit. What are you people doing? Just be normal? What is all this? Why are we exchanging gifts? Why is my family staring at me when I open a present? And I open it and it’s like, I don’t know, a fucking toy gun. Everybody goes, ooh, I remember going this is a weird ritual. You guys are freaked man. This is so strange ceremony wedding. But eventually it got to me. And eventually, I was entrained into it, and I wanted the things but I also remember thinking, I’m wanting this and it doesn’t feel good. It’s agitated. I want the new action man figure. I want the new stuff. Star Wars I used to like Star Wars figures. Yeah, I remember using my Boba Fett. And I was really upset and I wanted a new one. But I wanted it in this weird,

 

 

anxious,

 

Richard Grannon 

envious like, I was angry about And I was obsessed with that. I remember thinking even as a kid, I must have been maybe I was five or six was like, This is weird. I don’t feel this way about anything else. I don’t. There’s nothing else. So I think we’re in trained into object fascism. And now we are very sick. All of us are very sick. But it’s breaking because the baubles won’t work anymore. Humans don’t work like that. You can’t use the same stimulation and get the same response all the time. Humans are adapt. They’re very flexible. There’s a huge amount of neuroplasticity. And now I think we’ve adapted and more like, yeah, the same. This, isn’t it anymore.

 

 

Yeah, because

 

Bryn 

one of the things that bamboozles me currently is this complete dissonance and incongruent, on incongruity between actually accepting the true nature of man, that he can be rational, but he can also be highly emotive highly at us, and we are seeing this right now here in Australia with no free strict border controls because of COVID and this than the other but then all of a sudden, you found out that two girls snuck across because they wanted to come to have a party, or you lock a load of people up in a hotel for 14 days. And guess what? They start shagging the security guards, you know, and it’s all like, or, you know, and yes, we we’ve discussed using the rotten file of of shame and guilt, but underneath it The thing that I keep asking myself and others around me is are you fucking surprised? Yeah. Are you really surprised?

 

Richard Grannon 

No, they’re not. It’s a setup. It’s it’s a total setup. It’s a total setup. What’s what the next phase will be? And I I shot something for David ickes website iconic in March when this happened, and we’ve got it on video, and I said it with Boris Johnson for months Go. Just wait. When the second spike comes, it will come. We will be told it’s all our fault. And again, will you I said of Boris Johnson against the British people, but will be every authority figure across the globe. They’ll be like, yes, you’re going into another lockdown you Fox, but that’s because you won’t stop shagging each other. That’s because you won’t stop partying. That’s because you won’t stop drinking might. Well, of course young people want to meet up and party and illegal raves, you’ve just told them to stay in their house for four months for something that to all intents and purposes, doesn’t seem all that threatening. If you’re fit and healthy and young. Why should they forego like four months when you’re 18 is a fucking eternity. That’s that’s their that’s their youth. I’m not saying it’s right or wrong. I’m saying I understand.

 

 

It just is.

 

Richard Grannon 

It is what it is. I wouldn’t be doing hundred percent over Doing it I’d probably shag more just out of defiance

 

Bryn 

by but I guess it’s just this I just finally get incredulous at the moment that there’s such a disparity between people’s view and then being caught up in this shame and guilt. She’s never done it and it just sometimes because I because I end up thinking about things potentially more deeply. I find myself to use the the great method like Cassandra, you can see things into the future, not like miles away, but just small things happening. While she was given the gift of being able to see things into the future, she was also cursed with nobody listening to her or taking her seriously. And so now it can be. So it can be existentially troubling even even from that level.

 

Richard Grannon 

Yes, because I think that you can i think that what you can detect here is you can see a movement towards anti humanism, which is what humans want to do. Well, happy little humans healthy little humans like to get together and dance and drink and have a back an alien festival and then fuck each other. God bless him. That’s why we’re here. Like, because we’ve been doing that for millennia. If that stops, if that stops we’re all metaphorically fucked, but physically unfucked and it reminds me of 1984 O’Brien when he’s torturing Winston, it’s not often quoted. It’s a really weird line. He says to Winston when he’s torturing him, we will abolish the orgasm. We will abolish the orgasm. You will meet once a year in a dour ceremony in misery and be forced to have sex just to replenish the numbers. That’s it, but there’ll be no love. There’ll be no Joy, and we will abolish the orgasm. So I’m watching them and I’m going, Okay, I see how this is. Because we were told in the UK, you can’t meet up and hook up. You can’t go somebody else’s house. And if you’re already with them, and you’re in the same house, you’re okay. But you can’t go somewhere else and hook up. And I was like, all right. I’m not saying that they’re trying to abolish orgasms yet. But that could be the seat. That could be something that, you know, when we’re on year three, or five of this horseshit, that’s what they’re saying to people, we need to track you. You can hook up but you need to tell the government who you’re fucking it’s your social responsibility. how sexy will that be? fill out this form, and then we can have sex.

 

Bryn 

Yeah, it takes the harmony to a new place, doesn’t it? Yeah. And then there’s also for me that now our inability to deal with any suffering you sort of mentioned in this that went even close to this earlier on, it just strikes me that We become so bloody precious and so enslaved that we’ve, you know, young himself says, you know neurosis is the drive to avoid all suffering, all suffering. And yet, there is legitimate suffering, there is an appropriate level of suffering. Suffering is part of life again, let’s come back to the truisms of life. People made tough. There’s also suffering. So how do we actually deal and process with that rather than?

 

 

Yeah, it’s, um,

 

Richard Grannon 

I think, I think Sam has touched on this a few times. You know, it’s a kind of somatic narcissism, body focus narcissism, that obviously results in hypochondria, which is I should be young and beautiful forever. No. I should never have any illness. No, and I should never die. Are you mental? We’re all going to die. And but this is the culture we live in. It’s this frozen. infant tile, narcissistic veneer that is like California. It’s quite started in California and then it just spread across the world. It’s infected the world where youth and sexiness is the only thing of value. Well Hang on a second, like the people who give us our antibiotics, the people who give us our medical procedures, the people who give us the, the TVs, we watch it, you know, that we can’t, we can’t have this shift to we can’t afford to have a shift to only that which is instantly visually pleasing has value. We really are screwed at that point. And look at what’s happening with plastic surgery right now. It’s never been more popular. It’s it’s an exploding industry plastic surgery. The earth is plunging into tyranny, and people are getting their tests and their lips done in numbers never before seen.

 

Bryn 

Gary

 

Richard Grannon 

and so the bus went off. The side of the cliff. Everybody looked great. We’ll be selfing on the way down.

 

Bryn 

off the cliff hashtag lol YOLO Yeah. When I’m in the casket Can you just do

 

Richard Grannon 

the perfect selfie up there

 

Bryn 

you go. What is the way out to this?

 

 

Big question

 

 

I,

 

Richard Grannon 

at the risk of of trying to like, you know, bluff my way into sounding enlightened. I think I think the way out is inevitable. I think the way out is inevitable. And we maybe don’t need to agitate ourselves too much on the way out.

 

 

It’s gonna be what its gonna be. If we

 

Richard Grannon 

if we’re too engaged with the narrative and the story and not engaged enough in our actual reality because it’s raining outside the receivables, the tides coming in, none of these things give a fuck Not a single fuck about anything that we’re discussing here. The seagulls don’t care, the dogs don’t care, the waves don’t care the mountains of whales across the way they don’t care. They won’t change. They won’t be altered by this at all. They will never experience any effect, any effect of this. And it’s good to connect with that. It’s good to connect with the timeless, it’s good to connect with.

 

 

That’s why like, I

 

Richard Grannon 

advise people to connect with nature because it it almost literally plugs into the infinite. The trees of trees aren’t infinite, but they’ve been there for a long fucking time. If you listen to the wind in the trees, that sound was being made a long time before humans were here. And they’ll be still making that noise a long time after. We’re all gone. So, connecting with the timeless connecting with the infinite, it’s very important. The narrative, the news, the story, the Instagram, the Facebook, the YouTube, this is the stuff that will drive you crazy. This is the this is where the infection lies. go be with your friends if you’re allowed and go be in nature and return to reality. This is not reality. This is a fever dream. This is somebody else’s fever dream, possibly as Bill Gates wenke Fantasy to inject his jeers into the sorry his vaccination into everyone, because he’s a crappy little psychopathic turd. And, and but that’s his fantasy. It’s not mine, and I don’t have to consent to living inside of the fantasy. And if it gets to the point where we say okay, you’re either vaccinated Part of the technocracy or you’re not and you can piss off. I would say, Okay, well, I guess I’m gonna, I’m gonna have to learn how to farm then on I, I got this, you know, whatever it whatever it is there’s an inevitability to all this. So I’m not saying, I’m not saying people do nothing. I’m not saying don’t be vigilant. I’m saying don’t drive yourself crazy. Like if you’re on the internet for more than five or six hours a day, stop. If you’re watching TV for more than five or six hours a day stop. It’s real, but it’s not the ultimate reality. All of this will pass all of these governments, all of these people, they’re going to die. We’re all going to die. We’ll all be dust. It’s okay. So, when we were talking about spiritual awakening before a psychological awakening, I think it’s very healthy to come back to little bits as much as you can tolerate existential nihilism. You know, which is Eckart tolle, he wrote a book called one day even the sun will die. This is good. Remember, nobody Like my great grandpa, my great grandchildren will not know my name, that nobody will know my name inside of a very short period of time relatively. It matters, but it doesn’t matter that much. Part of the problem we have is we’re so hypersensitive was so non resilient was so self obsessed and so narcissistic. We’re whipping ourselves up into a frenzy over this. It’s

 

Bryn 

codependent with all of that. Absolutely.

 

Richard Grannon 

That’s a totally codependent response because we’re relying on the other the codependency is as essentially as a parasitic relationship. If I could say it like this codependency is a relationship in which I make myself invisible. My needs are invisible, and I parasitically attach to somebody or something that is invisible. So we’re all entrained into codependency that takes place in a dyad between two people. And we’re all codependent with our media, our social media and our governments and our nations now. It’s a codependent relationship. So for yourself from the codependency recover from the codependency. But it’s hard. It means being an adult. It means being visible. It means being authentic. It means being present. It means not constantly sifting everything you do and say to what reactions will they get from people? Will they get more likes? Will they get more followers? I’ll just be you. Whatever you think is the thing, then go do the thing. And if people don’t like it, then do it on your own perspective crazy. majors walking through the world with you. You’re familiar and your spells you’ll be alright.

 

Bryn 

And also use a well underused word, which is no from time to time.

 

Richard Grannon 

We can say no. We can say no. And we can say no to all kinds of things. That that phrase usually people interpreted as saying no to all authority. For a codependent. We need to learn saying no to us first. Yes, it’s an addiction. So the impulse to feed The addiction to to delete yourself, delete your authenticity, delete your identity will rise up. And you have to find the strength to say no, I’m not deleting who I am to avoid conflict. It’s all about conflict avoidance really. And being hyper agreeable. You say no, I won’t avoid conflict here, alone conflict calm, I’ll let it calm and I’ll see what it is. And whatever happens, I’ll do my best to cope with that. That’s all an adult human can do. That’s what we’ve been doing for millennia. That’s what we’ve always done. We didn’t shy away from pain. We didn’t shy away from being visible. We didn’t wasn’t you would we would be considered in any normal human tribal community up until now like the last hundred years and then you’ve got the rest of humanity. Anywhere in the globe. We would appear as total freaks total weirdos in any tribe. You go, Japan, I can now Africa droppers anywhere in time. That’d be like what the fuck is wrong with you? Why are you like that? Why are you so twitchy? Why are you so weird? And they’re they would probably say as well, and they probably call the shaman over and be like that the spirits out of this one is not that

 

Bryn 

is a good dust down. Yeah. I know I mean, particularly that, you know, we all collide in life and that’s okay. But the to avoid even the the mildest of collisions and going back to what you were saying earlier on to to work with people who could one minute shoot someone in their head, but then the next minute, get get all worked up about saying no, in a in a supermarket. I mean, right that? Yeah, that’s the

 

Richard Grannon 

that’s the modern state. I think that’s that’s the modern state of broad scale codependency that I claim is the bigger problem than narcissism is. You can do awful things if it’s not you doing it. So if I give you a badge and I give you a motto and I give you a mission You’ll do pretty much anything pretty much everything

 

Bryn 

by the Nazis in

 

Richard Grannon 

World War Two, proved by the Nazis in World War Two, and it’s been proven. It’s been proven. Every time you know, people go to the cinema, it’s proven every time people make an order on Amazon, it’s proven. I used to be big into MK Ultra, and the CIA and Manchurian candidates, which is a process whereby you brainwash people in order to make them assassins, and then afterwards, they don’t remember it. So even if they’re captured and tortured, they wouldn’t be able to give away any information. And I was so into it that I actually approached different American government agencies, and most of them Tommy’s pissed off. And we’re actually ended up approaching the Anthony Robbins foundation because I heard he’d worked on Project deadeye. And I called this 1996 I called on a payphone. And I said, Hello, I’m a psychology student. I want to know more about Mr. Robbins, his work or projects A day and some nice secretary of his just sent me a copy of the army and Intelligence Service issued manual for project I don’t she photocopy that coffee stains and all and just sent it to me in English. It’s, it’s, I still have it. And I read it and I was like, Oh, this is so woefully naive and incompetent and I realised it’s a total waste of time. You don’t need to brainwash people to turn them into assassins or genocide committers or just tell them they’re important. Just tell them you are doing their national duty just feed into their ego and their narcissism. They’ll do whatever you want. Not everybody will. But if you take a population of 100 people and interview them, we’ll find three or four who would do awful things, awful things. Without brainwashing they don’t. Humans don’t need brainwashing. We don’t need it most. Just to have significance just to have a sense of meaning. I’m understanding having a patient history. Yeah.

 

Bryn 

Yeah. And I think anybody who disagree with us, I would suggest they go and look at the Solomon Asch experiment, which is so simple of having a number of people in a room here all say that one line shorter than the other is blatantly wrong. And then the last person sits there and goes with the crowd.

 

Richard Grannon 

So this is this is where we’re really up to now. And and this is very, it’s, it’s a, try not to use the word triggering. I’ll just say triggering. It’s a provocative subject. People don’t realise how highly conformist they are and how highly conformist we’ve become, we posture and we say, Well, I’m the Myer Briggs. I’m an INFJ diddly Dee and because I’m a Pisces, I’m a mate. You’re not you’re not really anything my main your what your tribe says you are. I am. I’m no different. I am what my tribe says. I am and yes, you have freewill. And yes, you have responsibility. But don’t take the pass like you’re not. You’re not. To me this is again, it’s consumer capitalism. Everything is a thing. And it’s capital, including me. And I’m, so we set up our own consumer profiles for them. This is me, I vote this way. This is how I feel about this issue. This on my favourite favourite ice cream is pistachio. And I’m like, inside the two months, I could turn you upside down, it would be illegal. And you know, I’d have to feed you psychedelics. But and inside the two months, I could I could turn you into a completely different person. It’s not hard. It’s not that hard to do. So my my my point was saying this is part of our codependency is pretending that we have more agency than we really do. And we need to have a proper view of Who am I really? Why do I vote this way? Why did I take that job? Why do I do tell this story about who I am. You know, people say I chose to be a doctor. I know you didn’t know child of 10 years old chooses Did you were you were pressured into it. You were pressured into it by your tribe or I chose to be a lawyer. No, you didn’t do it well done. I’m not taking anything away from you. But don’t feed yourself this bullshit narrative that it’s your choice. It’s not these things are not are not our choices. So again, this is back to if there is going to be a psychological awakening, the useful elements of existential nihilism will be to embrace the fact that we aren’t as much as we think we are. And in another sense, we’re far more than we think we are far far more and have far more power. But the power begins, as you just said in in saying, No, I’m not going to do it this way. I’m not going to show up as this avatar. personality of myself, I’m gonna show up as me and this is what I really want. This is What I really like, this is what I’m really about this is actually my true identity. And then you have to have the courage to be rejected for that or punished for that which is which is amazing.

 

Bryn 

It’s not easy. And you’re going to get rejected for it. Absolutely, particularly by those nearest and dearest to you, or large swathes of followers who thought you’re one thing and then you become another we don’t like and predictability. least we know the people around that we’re in relationship with.

 

Richard Grannon 

Well, you I mean, the social media is almost like codependency writ large. So if a person on social media changes, and you see the response of the followers, you see codependency and narcissism writ large, they become very upset. And it’s, it’s this tribal drive to make other monkeys in the troop conform, don’t do things differently. It makes me anxious is what they’re really saying. You’re triggering me into abandoned anxiety, you’re reminding me of my failings, you’re making me feel insecure. So as you’re climbing, they’ll, they’ll try and drag you down. Because that’s their issue. They’ve not dealt with that. They’re not individuated. So I need you to be you just as you are. Because you’re an object, you’re a thing. You’re part of my capital, and I need you to do this for me, you move you change.

 

Bryn 

It’s a very particular trigger my nervous system, and I don’t like that. Right. And it’s right. emotions. Yeah. And, you know, kind of starts right when we’re kids and you go, that really big climbing frame, a mum looks at it and goes, Oh, there’s my precious child. Come down. It’s scary. So I was having the time of my life. But now this isn’t scary. It’s scary. It’s scary. And I’ve been playing for last. I was very kindly introduced to a simple technique of trauma relief. tremoring so bringing on involuntary tremors into a body just to release and flush out and like almost almost the physical knots of trauma and stuff in my body over the last year and I thought something’s there’s got to be something in there so I continued and continued and continued and then after a period of time I found my own Nervous System downregulated and then I could feel other people. Yeah, and then it becomes kind of triggering when you sit there in a in a board meeting or something and people say I really needed to do this and go I’m not going to do it because it’s your nervous system that wants me to do it. No rational idea. Yeah, yeah, it

 

Richard Grannon 

I one thing I would say to people, you know, like, like with your experience there which is a kind of it’s a process that’s led you to come out of codependency so codependency like a narcissist can A dependent relationship or a master slave relationship depends on you not being able to process your emotions properly. So because you’re trying to avoid guilt and avoid shame, you’re constantly dodging, you’ll just do as he told you don’t trip that mine in the minefield. Once you’ve got past that, and you don’t mind feeling guilt, you don’t mind feeling guilt, or you don’t feel guilt. And it will be somewhere between the two depending on our level of triggering. And you’re coming out of codependence and your standards will go up. Well, that’s going to create turbulence. interpersonally. Absolutely. That’s going to create confrontation. People always say that to me, when they’re when they’re in recovery. They’re like, I’m getting into more arguments with people. And like, well, you’re probably demanding a bit more respect than you previously used to. Because now you’re present, as you just said, and you value yourself. Now if you’re a thing that has value, and you’re visible and you’re present, you’re not coming from the codependent false self. You’re coming from From your authentic self, you’re not going to let somebody trample all over something that’s valuable. Isn’t that that’s not human nature.

 

Bryn 

Hmm. You have nicely defined boundaries. We can all get along unless you rub up against that and then I’ll just politely tell you to fuck off.

 

Richard Grannon 

Well, that and that’s that’s where societies that have worked for a period of time and flourished, that there would have been cultural, very explicit cultural means of doing conflict. And I, my pet theory is where we see a lot of politeness. The culturally there’s been a lot of individual violence. So British people are very polite. And this was a warring nation. It was the very invaded a lot of children born here were born the sons and daughters of invading warlords, and people carried weapons So they were violent, so you could be killed brushing up somebody the wrong way. And it’s happened. So politeness becomes a thing. Look at the Japanese, walking around with a three foot long razor blade that you have that you can draw out and under a second that makes people polite. Yes.

 

Bryn 

Yes, it does. Does. One of the one of the questions I like to ask my guests towards the end of the podcast is, and I’ve tweaked this recently since talking to Sam. So previous before

 

Richard Grannon 

Sam, and then there’s after Sam,

 

Bryn 

did you find that? Yes. Do you find it’s not just me?

 

Richard Grannon 

Yeah. No, I joke. I’ve joked with him about it, especially if, if I sit with Sam and I talked to him for like, a couple of times. I’ve sat with him and I’ve had a couple of drinks with him. And like a two or three hour conversation. Yeah, it changes you. It does changing. It’s it’s very intense. It’s a very intense experience. And, you know, it takes two or three days to sort of get over And,

 

Bryn 

and there’s something there was something amazing about the fact that you can sit and talk to me on the podcast to become a, we’ve chatted to some reminiscing thing, but there’s something very real about the fact that you know, we will cruise around and meet codependents who brushed up against narcissistic behaviours and this that and the other one and they say oh yeah, my ex boyfriend or ex girlfriend or wife or daughter that is a narcissist and this than the other but that would never be acknowledged by the other person or recognised but to actually meet somebody who right at the very start to our conversation said yeah, I’ve been diagnosed twice. Mm hmm. I mean, this is it. Yeah, it

 

Richard Grannon 

and I wouldn’t I wouldn’t want people to get confused and think that’s a good idea to be talking to narcissists. Generally. Sam is Sam has a unique while that would feed his his narcissistic sense of self is unique, but yeah, He is unique. And if I would say if people do get the chance to speak to him, they absolutely should. And if you’re polite and, and nice, we will talk to you and He will help, which confuses people. They’re like, Well, why would he help you? They might because he can. Because he has the power to do that. That’s good people. People want to reduce this to like, like a child story, good and bad, black and white, you know, angels and demons. It’s not it’s it’s it’s not. It’s not like that. It’s unfortunately the world is not It’s not like that. But yes, absolutely. You will. Your worldview will change after after speaking to some

 

Bryn 

for sure, indeed. Anyway, so back to the final question. So previously, I would ask people, if you could just upload a nugget of information into the collective consciousness what would it be swapped it now to if you could, if you could upload a question into the collective consciousness so everyone, just thought And everyone just thought about it quietly for five or seven minutes. What would that be? Richard?

 

Richard Grannon 

I’ll give you a tricky answer. And I would I would have them if I could, if it was like this radio signal that just went out. Yes. And they had to do it for five or six minutes, I would have them ask themselves. Why am I doing this right now? And the reason I say that’s a tricky question, because if you do that for five or six minutes, you’ll keep doing it. Because you’ll learn so much. I think people just do, they just do habitually. And if you actually set for five or six minutes and say, why am I Why am I doing this? Now? Why am I in this marriage? Why am I in this job? Why am I going here? Why do I do this every day? Why am I doing this? Why am I doing this? Why am I doing this? It will It will echo and they’ll keep asking themselves that and the world will become a more purposeful place right now you’ve the one of the things with codependency is you have people drifting, trying to live somebody else’s dream, somebody else’s story, somebody else’s narrative and their purpose less, they have no intent. They’re very, very limited on intent. And if you’re asking yourself the opposite question is, why am I doing this? And you keep asking that you end up finding an intent you go, well, it’s for this reason.

 

Bryn 

Superb. It’s been an absolute pleasure talking to you. pleasure talking to you, sir. Indeed, it’s for me, breath of fresh air. Thank you. Thank you. People want to reach out and find you. You’re all over YouTube, Instagram, all the all the platforms that induce the strange neuroses

 

Richard Grannon 

and they’re under The counter infection counter for the vaccine and the vaccine.

 

Bryn 

Love it, love it. You’re the vaccine. But yes, you’re all there. Just look for Richard Branson and Spartan life.com.

 

Richard Grannon 

Thank you very much. Thank you, sir. It’s been an absolute pleasure.

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