#166 The only way forwards is into the Darkness – through the lens of Jung with Brittain Garett

This week I continue the exploration into the depths of psyche with Brittain Garrett, one of the few Jungian analysts in Western Australia.

In this conversation we explore her perspective of the world through the lens of Jungian depth psychology.

Within this conversation, Britt shares a pertinent throw from the I Ching and Jung’s equation for realising God. We also discussed the tension of opposites and the link to cancel culture, as well as legitimate suffering.

What shines through in this is that all systems move towards wholeness – particularly psyche – and that the way forward is not through spiritual bypassing, playing on social media or just burying your head in the sand hoping that it’ll all go away. The way forward is actually being in your self, your body and dropping into the darkness.

While this is scary, it’s only in the depths of the darkness that potentially we will find the light.

Ultimately, this is a process in which psyche is on a journey, and we are part of it.

Read Full Transcript

Bryn 

This week  we continue our exploration into the depths of psyche with Brittain Garrett. Britt is one of the few Jungian analysts here in Western Australia. And I thought it would be fascinating to listen to her point of view on the world, given how the depth she works with people.

 

Within this conversation, Britt reads from the I Ching, she presents Jung’s equation for realising God. We also discussed the tension of opposites and it’s linked to cancel culture, as well as legitimate suffering, and many others.

 

I guess what shines through in this is that all systems move towards wholeness and psyche is no exception. And that currently, the way forward is not through spiritual bypassing playing on Facebook, or just burying your head in the sand hoping that it’ll all go away. But actually being in yourself and being in your body and dropping into that dropping into the dark. Going deep deep down. And while this is scary, it’s only in the depths of the darkness that potentially we will find the light.

 

And ultimately, this is all a process in which psyche is on a journey, and we are part of it. So enjoy, Britt.

 

Bryn

Hello, welcome back to WA Real. I’m your host, Bryn Edwards. Today we have the great privilege of welcoming back Britt Garrett. Britt, welcome back to the show.

 

Brittain Garrett 

Thanks.

 

Bryn

So it’s been nearly three years since we last spoke. You were episode number six I know which seems like an eternity ago. But still. I have to say with no disrespect to any other guests. If I had to rank the most important podcasts top seven years would definitely be in it because I am I’m very pulled towards the the depth levels of psychology and And I still think there’s so much value in the conversation that we had that people can reflect on in every day. And so I wanted to continue that today, as we look in the world. So just before we hop into that, and you are one of one of a very select few of actual qualified union, psycho analysts here in Western Australia, and in the last podcast, we, we attempted to bring some of the world the works of Carl Jung and simplify it for the everyday person. And we went into individualization and talked about the morning and lunchtime and afternoon of life, which is a nice metaphor. And we talked about the shadow we talked about tension of opposites and and also just the, the depth level of the sort of union analysts analysis. And so with everything that was going on in the world which needs no introduction I thought it would be super interesting and valuable to speak to you to hear your view on things through your lens in the world. And so, without giving you Well, we’re giving you a big open question of how do you view the world? I thought I’d sort of structure it by saying, what are some of the sort of key data points that there are so that you observe that’s going on? And then how do you take that and how do you view that in the way you view the world? Does that make sense? So?

 

Brittain Garrett 

Well, like I said, when we, when you first contact me, I thought, well, we all know we’re going to hell in a handcart like the world is just feel so dark and so difficult and there’s so many problems. We’ve got climate change. We’ve got Trump, we’ve got COVID. We’ve got the economy. It’s It’s just so dark. Yes. But and we know that and we feel that when we’re swamped by that, so I’ve what young brings to this. And the way I think like to think about it is meaningfully, like, what is going on on a bigger picture level. Is there hope? Is there something bigger? Are we just going downhill? rapidly? So that’s that’s kind of what how I want to think about it. Hmm. So, I mean, I’ve got quite a few data points. So hopefully Yeah, a bit of a conversation still. But a couple of things that are really occurring to me is that young you know, young thinks about that all systems are working towards wholeness. Yes, so that, well, it looks like we might be on on one side and heavily going to hell. What’s the bigger picture that’s really still working towards wholeness like psyche does this psyche than us. And I think that the world does that. So that and he said, his big concepts around that are the two concepts. One is antimony, which means never alone, which means there’s always an the opposite. Yeah. And the other big concept is an empty or dromio.

 

Bryn 

Until drove me and then

 

Brittain Garrett 

to dromio. Yeah. Which means that the tendency of something to flip into its opposite, right? So these are the two big concepts because he says that the way psyche regulates itself or the world regulates itself is through compensation,

 

 

right. So

 

Brittain Garrett 

that when it feels like oh, there’s just we’re just so dark. There’s so much happening. There’s going to be a moment where we begin to flip into light. Yes, and I think this is just sort of has to get that bad in a way to bring us to be thinking about this

 

Bryn 

and think if many people reflect on the journey possible Some of the biggest turning points will be when they got that far down into the depths of the well that Yossi found something to push back on.

 

Brittain Garrett 

Yes, that’s right. And it’s through suffering, that change happens. Hmm, that we get a broader consciousness and I think that’s another data point that it’s, it’s about the development of consciousness really, how do we become more aware of what’s happening?

 

Bryn 

I was going to say, what, what does that because it seems to be a very on Vogue, particularly if you’re moving in New Age spiritual, or we’re gonna raise consciousness and expand consciousness and it’s very cool. It’s very sexy thing to do, you know, if you’re gonna put yourself out for, you know, Facebook event where you know, do some breathwork drink some hot chocolate cow and it’s like we’re raising conscious. What does that actually mean?

 

Brittain Garrett 

I think it means first and foremost really being in life. So much of that conscious raising, raising is a little bit of a spiritual bypass, let’s just raise rise above it all, we’re all this. And I think the way in is down, yes, that’s what we’ve got to do. We’ve got to go in and down. And then this, this us, we are so far down, but that’s part of the process. I think. We’ve got to really live life. And

 

Bryn 

so I guess, I guess, for me, having the part of what drew me to read some of Young’s books was my own sort of collapse and darkness and and and then that helped me to start to make sense of the bigger journey that was going on. And so that was very much Bryn individually within his own personal structures. It strikes me that we’re all sort of being Brought back in collectively from, you know how we reference ourselves to external structures, which are faltering, as it were. And so some of the things that you probably could still hold on to, for a sense of safety, so you’re not going down to that darkness. Even they’re disappearing now. And they’re coming under question. And so, so it. It’s almost like where previously I would meet people who individually were going through that journey. Now we’re collectively going through our journey. Does that make sense?

 

Brittain Garrett 

Yes, that’s right. I think that’s very true. And I like what you say that we don’t have these things to hang on to anymore or distract ourselves from what’s happening. That we have to turn inwards.

 

 

Yes. Which strikes me as a collective collapse, a collective

 

 

collapse.

 

Bryn 

Take us into our shadow. Yes, just the individual but the collective one as well.

 

Brittain Garrett 

And then maybe we can find the light in the dark. You know, if you think of the yin yang symbol that there’s always that the contains its opposite in the black bit is that little white bed? And then

 

 

that’s what we’re looking for. Hmm.

 

Bryn 

Or else you say?

 

Brittain Garrett 

Well, I really want Can I just Yes, but I’m sure that ageing, because we mentioned this, mentioned it last time and I still I love that one contemplation. But so I had all these ideas in my head. And then I thought, I’m just going to pull one or I’m going to throw one and I’m going to see what we get. And, and because first of all, when I was thinking about this, I was thinking about, oh, you know, we sort of found myself falling into positivity about it, you know, but, well, it’s good to be okay. And you know that we need this. It’s the big reset, and I started thinking maybe I’m being a bit too to seeing the sunny side but and then I pulled this one and it’s number 36 darkening of the light so and the one before that is progress so really is the sense of we are in really dark time so I thought I really needed that as a reminder did not just get caught up in thinking positively about it and you know we’re all going to be changed through this but the two things that really struck me about it is that it really it is talks about the dark man and dark times and dark leaders which is happening that in that they’re such peddlers of hate particular and and false hoods. So we’ve got to really keep an eye on this is really dark times and we can’t just with consciousness raising and stuff. We can’t just rise above this. We’ve got to really feel the darkness Yes and how we get pulled into it like as I know I get it’s much rage full of rage about what’s happening in the world as the other side isn’t yeah it may just

 

Bryn 

just because you’ve done all this analysis and it doesn’t it doesn’t make you less of acumen

 

Brittain Garrett 

no no that’s right maybe hopefully Don’t get so stuck in it sometimes. So but I got to read that is me recognising my shadow is full of rage is as the other side is Yeah. But in so but what we one thing it said is, we must not unresisting Li let ourselves be swept away. And I think that’s part of this that we have to really stand in our own. Like you said, it’s a collective thing, but we have to do it individually, and not get swept away by the collective by the collective energy. So and then there’s the other thing I wanted to say which is gonna lead into more about We can come back to it maybe but because with the ageing you got those, because that’s the thing that the ageing is a lot like this idea of antimony and an anti a dromio. Because it is it’s, it’s it’s always switching, it’s called the book of changes because things switch into their opposite. Yes, so they gradually progress through and then flip into the opposite. And so, one of the, the changing lines is that what I’ve got at six at the top, is says, Here the climax of the darkening is reached, the dark power at first held so high a place that it could wound all who err on the side of good enough light. But in the end it parishes of its own accord, for darkness of its own dark because of its own darkness, because evil must fall at the very moment when it has holy overcome the good and it says, not light, but Darkness first declined up to heaven, then he plunged into the depths of the earth. And that’s what I want to talk about. But we can come back to that because it’s kind of big.

 

 

No, keep going. Um,

 

Brittain Garrett 

well, because that’s this is this idea of something switching into its opposite. And also like, because I’ve been reading this fabulous book because we’re having Liz Stein at the young society speak to us on Friday because we’re celebrating Rick’s Weaver who is the first union analyst in w in in Australia and she’s from Perth. And Liz wrote this book becoming whole humans realisation humans equation for realising God. Yeah, How heavy is that? And it’s this Young’s equation for realising God

 

 

equation as in

 

Brittain Garrett 

Yes, calling the equation and it is it’s this big, huge mathematical equation and this is part This development of consciousness there’s actually is he has created this equation really does. Yeah. And and Liz writes this book really well, I was getting this first you look at then you’re like, Oh my god, what is that but he’s talking about this. And what it says is that we started this like that God wants to be come conscious like that he God is unconscious. Yes. And that’s almost our purpose as humans is to become is to bring God into consciousness. Yes. So that’s part of this equation. So they get starts at a and it goes all the way around through all these millions of steps but really, through the four functions through thinking feeling sensation, and intuition is how we bring things to consciousness and it comes all the way back to a again, but it’s it’s this idea of before enlightenment chopping wood. In carrying water and after enlightenment, and so we come back. But it’s it’s different. same but different. And so like what he says is that, first of all a becomes falls into B. So this is like the progress of God becoming conscious. And a and that’s this is this idea in the ageing that it’s like he falls into darkness. Yeah. And this is how God becomes conscious is by coming into the world. And so this is also the point about we have to live life. It’s not about us raising our consciousness to God. It’s about God coming into the world. And it’s this. Instead it’s like, wait, so that be like, he goes from a to b. and B is a shadow, but that’s like, sort of warm blooded instinct. So it’s the sins of the flesh kind of thing. And then see as I think where we are right now in the world and see is called physics so that’s coming into the physical world. But what he says is like any tells the Gnostic myth myth of announced and physicists, and that now means the Spirit of God and man but unconscious, and now looks at sort of like the narcissistic Narcissus myth, like knouse, looks into the water and sees its reflection. Yes. And then he leans forward to get closer and closer and falls into the world. And this is how God first comes into the world. Wow. But then he falls in love with the world falls in love with matter and gets chained in the world. So that this is kind of where we are. Now we’re like chained to materialism. We’re chained to To the world. And this is the work is now to become really conscious of this, how we’re sort of stuck in the physical material world. And that we need spirit. Now, we need to bring in the opposite of spirit into the material. So it’s, yeah, was di, D is Lapis. It’s the it’s the holding of the tension of the opposites. So right, so this is then what we so we’re fully in one opposite. And then we have to gradually begin to develop the next opposite. So because the tension is always between spirit and matter. So you think about now like spirit is a dirty word. We don’t even talk about it. Like Freud’s time. It was sexuality. That was the dirty word. Now, that’s just normal.

 

Bryn 

Yeah. And it’s interesting. The tension of opposites comes in because it strikes me that if you look at how interactions are playing out on things like social media, and even on the news or say, there is on political debate, you just don’t see discourse nowadays, where you there’s an ability to hold conflicting views, and have it having the mental and emotional spaciousness to then dive into the nuances of the toe. So that you can begin to create third. And what we seem to have at the moment is a complete aversion to any sort of tension that opposites bring. And so therefore, we now have was, was, I think being labelled as cancelled culture, where it’s like, I don’t like anything is Yeah, I’ll defend your D platform you slander you, take you down. Ad hominem insults abuse. And I’ll just because I get too triggered by the tension of your opposite and what you represent. Yeah,

 

Brittain Garrett 

yes. Yeah, that is so true. And that’s so perfect bringing in cancel coach, because that’s exactly what we can’t hold the opposites.

 

Bryn 

Yes, I think, you know without blowing my own horn but also recognising the journey I’ve been on with the podcast since you know, three years since last time we spoke, to sit and listen and listen and listen and listen and listen and listen to people’s journeys, is my bandwidth for nuance is just increased and my bandwidth to listen to differing points of views, not just within a conversation, but Between conversations. And it took me a while to work out why I was really struggling in the world. Because I was developing this capability, which the rest of the world seemed to shrink because of eroded concentration spans and through you know, distractibility of mobile phones it social media and you know, our entertainment on demand do at my light, very base instinctive will clicking here, there and everywhere, you know, I see it in the workplace I experience in the workplace, I see it out in in, you know, just trying to have I think part of why why real came about was because I wanted the depth the conversation that I just wasn’t getting anywhere else. And so, as I saw it shrinking in others, I was expanding in that ability, you know, trying to put tickets on myself, but that was and I was getting this incredible tension and until Because I’ve become quite sensitive to this cancelled culture, and I see a link between, I still think about our discussion about tension of opposites and it’s interesting that from see going into the into the material world and day is this reconciliation of opposites. Yes. I’m curious to know what EF g Oh,

 

Brittain Garrett 

no, well, then C and then it goes back to so then then it’s bringing it’s bringing consciousness.

 

Bryn 

Right. So there is a, b, c, d, and then

 

Brittain Garrett 

back to a, it’s that oil chemical thing. One becomes two, two becomes three. Out of the third comes the fourth as the one. So then four becomes one again, so it’s Wow. And this is all about bringing consciousness and that’s how we bring consciousness is by separating things out into their parts. And looking carefully

 

Bryn 

go in live live the experienced, but then separate town. Yeah, it was a stand it to them bring it.

 

 

Yeah, that’s right. Oh live it

 

Bryn 

because we do we do we delineate and we contrast and we compare.

 

Brittain Garrett 

Mm hmm. And judge and value,

 

Bryn 

judgement value. Yes. And I’ve been on our own my own little journey with judgement because I realised I was quite one bad word judgey fucker, frankly, and and then I went through this journey of Do I need to tone down the judging? It’s like, No, you do do the judging.

 

Brittain Garrett 

Yes.

 

Bryn 

Because judging is helping to delineate and separate and that’s part of the 3d world that we live in. That’s right. So appreciate it, love it for what it is. and see it for what it is see it for what it is but then recognise everything that’s delineated and and, and has edges around it will also collapse back in

 

 

just loving my podcast

 

Brittain Garrett 

Yeah, and it’s so true what you say about like, how are we just getting narrower and narrower? You know, there’s because I just love flicking through that news feed but I can just see it’s so narrow now I hardly get any stories. And I’ll watch the news. And I think I didn’t hear that on my newsfeed because I’ve just, like narrowed down to the royal family.

 

 

Yeah. And,

 

Bryn 

and the algorithms of Google and Facebook and everything will just narrow you down.

 

Brittain Garrett 

Down to that. I know some nothing new comes in.

 

 

Yes. You end up in an echo chamber.

 

 

Yeah. Huh.

 

 

Scary.

 

 

One of the

 

Bryn 

sorry, was there anything else?

 

Brittain Garrett 

Well, no, I think that’s just I wanted to get that out there.

 

Bryn 

Yeah, it’s it’s that’s really fascinating. There’s actually an equation for realising God I did not see that one coming into one The other things that I wanted to put past your ask was, it strikes me that in the

 

 

in,

 

Bryn 

in the comparing and contrasting and the tensions that are going on. It makes many things that we may have held there, as I mentioned before, sort of outside institutions or whether it be media, government, medicine, all sorts of things or ranging from school and things that like external pedals that help us to reference who we are in the world are starting to look like they falter and as they crack. I find that there’s people using a word like I’m having a great awakening. At the moment I I can see the world in in other ways in the lenses. And it strikes me that they’re almost having a can have almost like big spiritual awakening moments, which is almost like a glimpse of the south as in capital H, capital S are bigger, which can be quite overpowering and brings a whole lot of energy into us. And but then that in and of itself will then once that glimpses moved and passed, and then almost like that, that energy can start to bring out a whole lot of stuff out of your out of your shadow. And that that moment when you’re imbued with this, oh my God, I’ve just had this experience that is almost like a choice to continue to go further with that level of inquiry. But then I’m also seeing a lot of people going, oh, I’ve had this experience, I need to go and tell, and I need to go and put it into the world. And that’s where I’m almost seeing people becoming quite evangelical about this. I’ve had an awakening, everybody should have an awakening, as opposed to Wow, now some darker stuffs coming up now I can really go

 

 

is is that

 

Bryn 

is that something you have sort of the mechanics of that, that you have witnessed in others and see and others and sits within the European methodology because it’s something else I’m trying to reconcile at the moment. So it’s like, you have this tension of opposites until such point as back and then it’s like, oh, glimpse of something much bigger, huh? Even south on the collective or unified consciousness and all Aug got expansive, and it’s huge. And Then why’d you go with that? Huh?

 

Brittain Garrett 

Yep. Well in the then it will engender its own opposite. You go there. But I think that like what you’re saying that that’s the glimpse of the numinous and you use that word, the numinous like the holy the divine. Yes, we’re saying and it’s an energy like you just like that. Boom. Just feel like whenever you like, a synchronistic moment, it was like, Whoa, that’s you’re feeling the divine. You’re feeling the numinous. But what can definitely happen as we get inflated by it, yes. You just want to be like that all the time. And you?

 

Bryn 

Yeah, yes, Robin? Yeah. I am the chosen one.

 

Brittain Garrett 

Yeah. And then there’s a slippery slope. And we chase that feeling though I think and then that’s where addictions and drugs come in, because we’re chasing the feeling but But then we it’s the work is then to integrate it into not get inflated by it. And in the way we integrated is by bringing it into day to day life, in that it has to happen slowly and steadily. And it’s hard work. And you know, that’s the thing like about analysis like, there’s plenty of times where you feel like nothing’s happening but it’s the, the week by week by week, the timing, the long term pneus of it is the slowness of it there are you can have a quick foom moment of luminosity, but then it you have to do the hard work of bringing it into the world.

 

Bryn 

And that’s, that’s an interesting point because in a world where certainly in a world where sales and marketing now is all about predictable outcomes quickly. Bang, bang, bang. Even you know, we’ve seen a big rise in, in, in the presence of mindset coaches. Right? And, and overcoming your limiting beliefs and things like that. And on one level, I get it and I can see the requirement for it in an ecosystem of, of or psychically, something’s going on. How do I make sense of it, but then, in that whole, speedy, predictable culture of, you know, motivational speakers and stuff like that, it sort of overlooks exactly what you’re saying, which is, this stuff takes work, and it takes time.

 

Brittain Garrett 

Yeah, that’s right. And it’s, in fact, it’s at the edge of our limits that we really get to know ourselves. You think of a child, you They’re always the further limit. You’re there for them to come up against. They don’t get a sense of who they are. They just keep pushing, pushing. So I don’t think we do overcome our limitations. We learn to work with them, or we learn to work within them. But we have limitations. That’s what being human is. We live in a biological body we limitations

 

Bryn 

suffer.

 

 

Yes, that’s right. Mm hmm. That’s the way

 

 

through it.

 

 

There are no shortcuts. There are no shortcuts.

 

Brittain Garrett 

No, and if you there’s no shutting down the other side. There’s no shutting down. Alternate voice this,

 

Bryn 

huh? there because it strikes me sometimes the whole Oh, well. I’m not like that song. Kind of just push that over there and embody and fortify this is a recipe for another

 

Brittain Garrett 

Hmm. And you know, it’s so interesting like you listen to the words they say in America with the words that they it that Trump supporters use like it’s the the left or you know that it’s they use the exact same words as the left and the right use the exact same words about each other like they’re trying to infiltrate and create trouble and create chaos and bring in the militia. And the writer saying and the leftist saying the same, the same thing about each other. I just think it’s astounding.

 

 

Do

 

Bryn 

one of the things I love about having these more depth conversations and speaking to someone like yourself is that it’s always like these very depth, the still waters that are moving at not a speedy pace more of a gradual pace, but they do.

 

 

Do

 

Bryn 

I get the sense that we’re at a place where we have been avoiding doing this work? And almost at the psyches gone from? Okay, I’ll give you a little top, please come and spend some time with me, the deeper parts of it, and then it’s like a knock on the shoulder and then it’s a clip around the head and it’s like, you’re still not listening to me. So now we’re going to create something cataclysmic. Almost.

 

Brittain Garrett 

Yep. And are we going to get it? The jury’s out? Really? Are we even gonna get that message or are we just gonna push harder against it? But I think you’re right. I think that is what’s happening and it is our opportunity to think about things What’s happening to see this polarisation and hold that tension between them and not just stick to one side? To our one point of view? But I don’t I mean, I really don’t know. Are we are we going to get this wake up call? It doesn’t quite seem like it yet but I that’s one thing about the COVID. I know we’ve got it easier here, but I’m kind of glad it’s hanging around as long as it is because that’s the only way it’s going to fundamentally change anything change our behaviour is if it lasts long enough. And yes, stuck with ourselves long enough.

 

 

Hmm.

 

Bryn 

Because it strikes me that we have been almost either other podcast guests recently who we talked about The impact of going to boarding school and and the early childhood trauma of that. And he discussed how there’s almost create this strategic survival self and therefore you depart from what he uses beautiful term, your inner indigenous just strikes me that so much of what we’ve done is so departing from our inner indigenous.

 

Brittain Garrett 

Yeah, yep. And I think when that’s just profound, what you what was going on in that last podcast, because that’s it that strategic survival self that kicks in and it takes over and it starts as a as a defence to save us. But it becomes demonic. It gets its own power, and it takes over and then the indigenous self which I love that I love when indigenous characters come up and dream set Because that is the original self it’s the it’s sort of the anthropods the the Spirit of God in man that’s unconscious still that’s the original source of that’s our work but but I think you’re right that’s what happens that that self gets hidden away to keep safe. But then it gets split off and dissociated and and we end the the demonic so that the saving the small as the ego you know the yeah the strategies to survive in the world kick in

 

Bryn 

hmm but that will only go so far. Mm hmm. By and large is created by eight 910 year old

 

 

Yeah, yes.

 

Brittain Garrett 

Yep. But But who’s who’s grown up quickly and then the eight 910 year old because you’re vulnerable gets laid off and, and then and hidden away so your your divine spark your childlike spirit gets split off and we just work from this adapt itself.

 

Bryn 

Is it the child light sort of enter indigenous? Is that almost what will? It is word savers?

 

Brittain Garrett 

Yes, but I think also what happens that the defence that starts out saving us is divine is angelic. Yeah. Like there’s so often in trauma, there’s something you know, an angel swoop in and, and save, save us. And that but it’s that very angel that starts to then turn demonic because it comes from the deep unconscious. It has that numinous power. So I think we really have to start protecting our own. We have to start to say, Look, I’ve got this. I’m going to look after my vulnerable self trying to allow my vulnerable self to be here and I think that’s what we need to do in the world. We have to see how vulnerable we are. We have See a vulnerable The earth is? It’s just absolutely can’t go on.

 

 

Hmm. And

 

Bryn 

was it? Was it Yeah, he sort of suggested that most neuroses come from an aversion to, probably from from from, from trying to avoid suffering.

 

Brittain Garrett 

Yes, neurosis is the is trying to

 

Bryn 

avoid the drive to avoid suffering. Yeah, yes. We’re all costs.

 

Brittain Garrett 

Yes. But it’s also to save us. Yeah. It’s also about private learn about ourselves. So it’s kind of both it’s to avoid suffering, but it’s also a real suffering. Yes. But it’s also what it’s the drive towards individuation and wholeness like it’s not working like this. So we have to do something difference,

 

Bryn 

because I just also wonder whether in that, you know, a version, we create a defence mechanism to protect ourselves and our verta selves from suffering that we don’t actually become developed the ability to deal with. Don’t call it legitimate suffering.

 

 

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

 

Brittain Garrett 

Totally. I didn’t talk at a Buddhist conference on that real suffering and folks suffering. Wow. And and what’s the difference? Well, I think real suffering is just really sitting with how bad it is, you know that and that life is suffering. Yeah, we’re not going to escape that. But folks suffering just as exactly as you’re saying, is this. All the drama we create in our lives? It’s like, I’m so busy. Oh, poor me. Oh, and we create all this drama to really try to escape our real suffering. Yes. But the moment we sit with our real suffering is that moment like the Four Noble Truths, it’s the moment we’ve kind of consumed with our suffering is the moment we can start to flip into enlightenment, which is the knowledge that life is suffering.

 

 

Yes. And, and that scary stuff. Isn’t this so

 

Brittain Garrett 

scary?

 

Bryn 

Because as I saw, gentlemen, I did some expertly exploratory journaling the other day, and it struck me that because, you know, there was a very personal reason why I ended up doing the boarding school syndrome podcast because I myself went to boarding school. And so and so I started to think about well, SWAT would have been that initiative, not just for me, but for anyone and what would that initial trauma have been like what would the steps I’d gone through like something would have occurred, it would have rocked my little world, then I would have not been able to make sense of it, I would have had no control over it. I would have had these feelings that I didn’t know what to do with anger rage, why am I being left here, etc, etc, etc. And so all of a sudden in that crucible, if that melting pot, you know, I would have birthed, right, this new thing, which is going to look after me and come in and protect and look after me. So, if I go back into those steps, you know, I didn’t know what was going on, I was out of control. So from that point onwards, because I did a I did quite a lengthy sort of presentation myself on my own addiction to knowing things Hmm, having been Yeah, at a at a very good school where, you know, look smart, don’t look stupid, all of that and then carried it on into a business consulting career. And so it struck me that the need to know things was a defence mechanism in and of itself. That gives you a sense of control. So those early trauma because those only traumatic experiences would have been ones where you weren’t in control, and you didn’t know what was going on, and you didn’t know how to deal with your feelings. And so therefore, this whole sitting in legit legitimate suffering, and letting go out of control into that suffering

 

 

is scary shit. Definitely. Yeah,

 

Brittain Garrett 

that’s right.

 

Bryn 

But to do it, and then come back, and then and then purposely do it again. And do it again and do it again. is almost amazing. Isn’t to make the dark less scary. Because you know that there’s a bigger part of you a bigger thing in my psyche and whatever it is that that will bring me back.

 

Brittain Garrett 

Yeah, yes. And that’s absolutely right. Because we, it’s not safe to be vulnerable because you’re at the mercy of the world. You’re at the mercy of boarding school, and it’s a traumatic disruption that you can’t get your head around. So we get in, we go into a progress. So we get we grow up really quick in those situations and, and you’re, you’re not being vulnerable is just so unsafe. So I think when you go back into the suffering of that vulnerable self, that’s the work but you’re right. It’s incredibly, incredibly scary. And also the thing is, there’s so many defences around it, that it’s really hard Get there because it’s one thing to say, Oh, yeah, you got to sit with your vulnerable self, but it’s so hidden away. Yes. And often say the only way you kind of even know it’s there is because you feel your head whirling with all your thoughts. Because thinking and knowing is the defence. So we go into the head, or we go into that kind of anger, but those hot those kind of feelings but so I always say, the moment you start filling your head just going, working this out, I’m going to think my way through this. That’s a sign the vulnerable self is there and then to maybe just, oh, get out of the head, come into the body and just sit with whatever. That’s the that’s actually the sign. Something’s triggered you something’s come up soon as you feel your head going.

 

Bryn 

Yeah, and I need to know and I

 

Brittain Garrett 

need to know I need to know I need to work this out. And then you’ve just like, you’re a million miles away. It’s perfect defence, because you are away from the vault.

 

Bryn 

So cunningly beat Full, isn’t it?

 

Brittain Garrett 

Excellent. It’s just a really good job.

 

Bryn 

It’s so cunningly beautiful, you know? And now when you can pick up a phone and Google and get your answer, yeah, you know, we’ll go on to

 

Brittain Garrett 

something else and go off.

 

Bryn 

Yeah. Or, you know, you can go into the Facebook feed, and it’s like, well, you know, I’ve got a friend who’s a doctor in New York, and he says, Well, there you go,

 

 

Yeah.

 

Bryn 

There you go. Or I put this stuff up and it’s, and it’s just a fantastic diff. It’s so beautiful way beautifully Connect, isn’t it? You’re raising an end for me, particularly, you know, with the and I you know, I come back to the boarding school, just as an example it almost structs was almost to me like it had a tie. It was like a time capsule with a with a countdown clock. And then all of a sudden from nowhere, it just went Click ok. It’s time. It’s time for you to go into this. And it was there. And it was, it was, it was going nowhere. I mean, I had a dark wake through something that had triggered me and always It was really, really dark. And then from nowhere I just asked my body I asked my intuition what’s going on and from nowhere, I was drawn to tap into Google boarding school syndrome. And then they go Wow, it was almost like this. Either it was a time capsule ready to open or there was some part of me that felt it’s safe enough now, or it’s relevant now or it’s time for us to an open this. And so I guess, yeah, listening, listening to you, if you you know, I suppose cognitively we all know, we’ve got stuff going on. You know, we’ve, we’ve all picked a few picked a few bruises through the collisions of life. And those bruises need to be worked out. But yeah, if you’ve got this fantastic defence mechanism, Mm hmm. The sticking mirrors and makeup over the bruises. You can’t see them. And, yeah, some of them you’re not ready to do. Yeah. I mean,

 

Brittain Garrett 

it saved your life, though, that those defences saved your life and boarding school. It saves your life and trauma. But I think, yeah, maybe it’s a time clock that’s ready to open at some point, but I often that vault stays locked it. I think it’s because you sat with it. That’s what happened. You didn’t just keep going. You just thought, Wait a minute. I’m just going to sit with this and feel

 

Bryn 

I feel shit. I’m going to stay.

 

Brittain Garrett 

Yes. Yep, that’s right. And that allowed that tiny little voice to come up in I’m just gonna go

 

Bryn 

is that tiny voice little Brendan are parked away.

 

 

Yes. Yeah. Yeah,

 

Bryn 

I, I guess I have the analogy nowadays. I think Winston Churchill he referred to his depression as the black dog. And so nowadays whenever I see depression, but if I ever feel like something’s coming up, I almost like I can’t get the black dog is out the door. I’m going to leave the door open. Ah huh. And the dog can come in and sit by lay or whatever or go play or is going to say, it’s ready. The dog will leave.

 

Brittain Garrett 

Yeah, and then you can say what does that dog nation do or needs a good patch and a lot? Exactly.

 

 

So when.

 

Bryn 

So it’s interesting because at the start this conversation we’re talking about

 

 

the

 

Bryn 

The darkness of it all and you know, are we going to get through it please strikes me without trying to cling to some mentally made false hope that by that very sitting in the darkness that if we can all get to a place as been dragged kicking and screaming into the darkness that something never beautiful will emerge,

 

 

maybe.

 

Brittain Garrett 

But that is the way is to sit with it to see it is this bad, where we just do so much to avoid how bad it is, and then we don’t even have to look at it. We just keep doing all those things.

 

Bryn 

does a lot of this surprise you collectively? on one? Well, probably not the content, but the the overall.

 

Brittain Garrett 

Well, because also, I was thinking about this astrologically what’s happening and this because it’s been huge astrologically and astrology has been long looking forward to or scared of, in January this year was Pluto who’s the planet of death and destruction and transformation through pulverisation was exactly next to Saturn the planet of limitations and restrictions and hard work and criticism and contraction. And they they met each other in Capricorn, which is also kind of the the old order really. So astrologers really had a sense of, it’s going to be an overthrow With the old order, and that, that things are really gonna change. There’s the potential for change big time, but it’s gonna be feel catastrophic, but nobody predicted a virus. No, I just think it’s like wow amazing that it’s a virus that’s overthrown the old authority overthrown the economy. I mean, it’s not business as usual anymore. No, so and it’s also thick and now Jupiter’s right there and so so all of these planets have just all converged and like if you look in the sky now you can see Saturn and Jupiter are right close together. And Pluto’s right close in there but can’t say it. But and now they’re all starting to by December of this year, they’re all going to move into Aquarius. Pluto take a little bit longer but so this now is the beginning of the Age of Aquarius. So like the 60s words, you know, intimation of it. But right now we are at the cusp of change we are about to move into the Age of Aquarius, which is about individual authority. It’s like it’s the water bearer. It’s the its humanity. So like you like, it’s, it’s always about the bigger picture Aquarius. It’s about all of humanity. But it’s done through individual authority. So that this is it’s part of what’s happening is the overthrow of the old order. And it’s doing itself in like that a genius. Yes, darkness has fed in eaten up the light. And now it’s got nothing left to feed on. And now it’s going to collapse and it’s going to give the chance for something really new to come off.

 

 

So

 

Brittain Garrett 

yeah, that’s right. So that I do have hope.

 

Bryn 

Yes, that comes from being Yeah. doesn’t come from a desperate place. It’s more of a no when you I guess one of the things that I’ve been exploring in the last 12 months is is faith in something bigger than yourself? Yes. Yeah. And sometimes that can be yourself. The bigger version of yourself realise self. Yes. And and this is part of that. Yeah.

 

Brittain Garrett 

Yeah. And I was thinking that’s a big thing too, that you know, we forget it’s a bigger picture we forget there’s something beyond just us. And I was thinking like, the myth for our time probably is the myth of the holy grail like that. In the first part, like parse Felice like a young up and coming warrior in is out there having battles and betting maidens and, and he sees the Grail the first time but he’s just, he’s just young and he’s living his life. And he doesn’t ask the right question. It’s only After he’s lived life, he’s lost battles. He’s suffered. And he’s matured there when he sees the precession come before him again. He gets the question right, which is whom does the Grail sir? That’s the question we got to keep in mind. Who does

 

Bryn 

the girls? Yeah. So what’s what’s what’s that?

 

Brittain Garrett 

What did we do it for? What are we doing this for? And even self growth and self development? It’s not just for me. It’s not just so I get inflated. Yeah, by God, but it’s so that no,

 

 

there’s God.

 

Brittain Garrett 

Yeah, that’s right. What are we doing this for? And it’s for it’s for all of us. It is for God. It’s for humanity. It’s for growth, but even that’s a bad word. Yeah.

 

 

financial growth

 

 

has been sought solid by capitalism.

 

Bryn 

Which either itself i think is creaking as well.

 

Brittain Garrett 

Yes, isn’t it? Yeah, definitely. Yeah. And now that’s we’re all coming to our own individual spirituality. That’s very Aquarian thing. Hmm. And and what we’re leaving behind is the age of Pisces, which is has been the age of big religions, huh?

 

Bryn 

Yeah, come to our own leadership, our own religion, our own God

 

 

for decentral

 

Brittain Garrett 

and I think it’s, it’s not quite our own god, it’s finding God within us. Our own Yes, sense of God many paths to the same to the one truth. Yeah.

 

Bryn 

It’s interesting that because I asked myself a question when when we were all asked to stay at home and not go to work and so on. At the same time, as like the premier was saying that and a lot we’re seeing it in Victoria at the moment, at the same time as as, as the premier is, you know, telling everyone stay at home. He’s also giving the place more and more powers. She’s fourth and authority. And so I started asking myself the question, why does that need to happen?

 

 

And the,

 

Bryn 

the everyday instinctive answer is because people don’t do what they’re told. So, you know, there’s going to meet people who don’t do that. But I think there’s a deeper answer in that same question is, why do we need to have a body that has to force people to do things? Why do we accept a society? Why do we accept a way of being you We are forced to do things. And in that there’s almost an abdication of responsibility. And he, you can do the leadership, you can do that, you know, and tell me what to do. And if I don’t like it, then there’ll be this other thing that tells me what to do. And so, it I almost got to this place and I tried to engage this conversation with a few people and there was like, he’s just been a dreamer. But, uh, but it’s but I actually thought it was quite an important question. Why do we tolerate for our even for ourselves and the kids and friends and family? Why do we tolerate a place where we have to be forced to do stuff and so moving from one place to another Pisces, Aquarius. Maybe the fact that lap Questions started to arise in May, is an indication of the move from one place to another

 

Brittain Garrett 

and how to bring the Pisces religion into the realm of Aquarius, which is because it’s so interesting, its individual authority, but has to serve a higher purpose. Yes. We’re so it’s so funny like, though the anti maskers or something it’s my god given right to not wear a mask as if they’re being about individual authority I get to choose for myself and then we have to have the police come and say no, you have to wear a mask. So, but if they if we ask ourselves, whom does the ground serve? Why do I have to wear a mask? It’s for something greater. So so it’s individual choice to be able to serve something bigger?

 

 

Yes,

 

Brittain Garrett 

please put The very words are being used against us. It’s my right to not wear a mask. Yes. And you can say it. I mean, yeah, there’s something in that. But but it’s but it’s not because it’s for higher purpose. Yes. Yes. And I think the police it’s the sort of the last dime that giving the police greater powers is the last dying gasp hopefully, of, of the old regime. The old authority they, they can see they’re going down. Although to get the troops in,

 

Bryn 

although I am seeing the use of some very clever other things. The I hate using the word weaponization, but it’s really carefully used of shame and guilt.

 

Brittain Garrett 

Or the Karen thing.

 

Bryn 

Yeah, and and, you know, do the right thing. You know, people are not behaving as well as they should be. You The tone

 

 

Yeah,

 

Bryn 

have a lot of the messaging across the Premier’s across the Prime Minister has been one of, okay naughty boys and girls. And for me that’s been triggering.

 

 

Yeah, that’s right.

 

Brittain Garrett 

And then it’s broadcast on social media. So it’s really public shaming. Yeah. And I there’s that’s not a way to change anything because I that then the vulnerable part just gets split way off. Yes. Straight into your defences. And don’t you tell me what to do in the anger and the rage that we’re saying? That’s what gets triggered? Don’t tell me to Yeah, wear a mask or commercial?

 

 

Yeah, yeah, I

 

 

that whole Karen thing is apparent on Facebook.

 

Brittain Garrett 

Well, yeah, like, don’t they? That’s what they call somewhere that now goes in and

 

 

it’s been used on both sides.

 

Brittain Garrett 

Have you seen that on Facebook? Like, they call it Oh, there she’s being a Karen and it’s coming in and shutting something down, whether it’s good or bad and it’s public shaming, and yeah, they shut up Karen Cayman shut down that wedding in Hawaii and yes, so. Yes. And then it’s broadcast that social media can’t Yes.

 

Bryn 

Can’t hold tension come in with shaming and, and guilting. And then Kapow, and with, you know, topped off with a side serve of virtue signalling. And, and then that’s it. There’s the mechanics.

 

 

Mm hmm.

 

Brittain Garrett 

Yeah, that’s right. And there’s no growth and that really just it’s almost childish. It’s very childish. Yeah.

 

 

And it just

 

Bryn 

this really arrogant thing that’s popped into my mind at the moment but I’m just struggling to work out where the grown ups gone.

 

Brittain Garrett 

Yeah, I know

 

 

where his personal response ability and personal authority. Hmm. Yeah.

 

Bryn 

Is there anything else you wanted to add to this conversation?

 

 

Because when I did when I did email you was hanging my head.

 

Brittain Garrett 

Yeah, I just think it’s this bigger picture and that it’s, this is part. Let’s think about the equation. This is part of a process that we have gotten stuck in the material. Because we need to, we have to really fully live in this world. We can’t just go into spirit, like we have to be humans. We have to be people. We have to be physical bodies to then approach the spirit, I think so it’s like the materialisation is you can’t skip that bit. No. And I love like in martial arts or the internal arts that they say First of all you have to build the body before you can do any spiritual work, it’s like building the vessel it’s you have to you have to build the the Yin energy to hold the G to hold the Yang energy, like you have to build the body so we have to live in the material world before we can do a spiritual journey. And that’s hard work with our feet on the ground seeing it as it is being with it as it is

 

Bryn 

going into the the battles and pitfalls of life.

 

Brittain Garrett 

Yeah. Facing the slings and arrows of life. Dreaming away. Yes, sleeping.

 

Bryn 

Mm hmm. This has been fascinating.

 

 

Yeah, it’s big. I

 

Bryn 

enjoyed it. I love it. Yeah,

 

 

I’m all energised.

 

Bryn 

It’s one of the last questions I’ve asked my guests and I have tweaked this recently is

 

 

If,

 

Bryn 

if we could just slow everyone down for five to 10 minutes, and you could just upload a question into the collective consciousness for everyone to consider quietly for five or 10 minutes. What would that question be?

 

 

I’m picturing your black dog.

 

Brittain Garrett 

And I’m just thinking,

 

 

Well,

 

Brittain Garrett 

why not just look into the eyes of that dog and really just look at it, sit with it. Ask it what it needs, be with it, pet it, love it. Not really a question but maybe ask it. What do you what do you need? What do you want from me? That’s a bit about the neurosis as a way towards health because the black dog is appearing because something needs to be addressed. So if we look at it, and say What do you need? And I love you.

 

 

Yes.

 

 

Something can come from that.

 

Bryn 

Thought. It’s been an absolute pleasure talking to you this morning. Yeah, thanks. If people want to find you, how did they reach out? where they can come to the young in? society? Yep.

 

 

Wi Fi.

 

Bryn 

Yes. Firstly, was it which Friday? It’s

 

Brittain Garrett 

been the third Friday of the month, but we’ve been on zoom like the modern world. Yeah. So it’s been Saturday, but our last ones in September and that’s a Friday. final, final one on Friday night. Yes. So um, yeah, I have a website, just google Britton Garrett.

 

Bryn 

And if somebody is now thinking, oh, there must be something in this young business. And we not. Yeah, well, those two have just been talking harebrained stuff well. would be a couple of entry level books to get someone excited or just told up in

 

Brittain Garrett 

one of my favourites Oh, that’s not even union lately. It’s called Buddhism. East meets West Buddhism and psychotherapy. Because it really is about sitting with yourself and like that’s the Buddhist part. Because the, the developmental way is like, come on, we gotta fix this. We got to cure this. Yeah. Yeah, that’s it. That’s right. build the best. Yeah, I want, you know, I want to change this. But that book has really been useful for me. And it’s quite accessible to be just sit with what you’re feeling. Yes, it was and ask yourself if this never changes. Can I survive that? And the answer is generally Yes. Because it’s really just a feeling.

 

 

It’s really justified. Anyway,

 

Bryn 

so you’ve heard Thank you so much. Thanks

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