#179 Where Psychology Ends and Your Moral Philosophy Begins – Richard Grannon

Why does psychology and philosophy begin in our human journey?

What is good? What is evil? How should I live my life?

Richard Grannon returns to discuss the importance of continuing to wrestle with important questions just like these to develop your own moral philosophy.

Previously, we spoke about co-dependency, people pleasing, and the impact of trauma. In this conversation, we go further into why a lack of moral philosophy will leave you in a weakened and a unboundaried state that can be so easily preyed upon by the outside world.

This is about our thinking, our decision making, and how we implement boundaries to live a more healthy life.

Considering your moral philosophy is not as difficult as you think, but it’s possibly more important than you may ever consider; there’s a strong suggestion that this may sit at the heart of some of our rising mental health issues.

As always, speaking to Richard was a true privilege and honour; he is incredibly articulate and has an amazing sense of humour. This conversation pushed me right to the forefront of my thinking currently, and possibly right to the forefront of my use of language.

Read Full Transcript

Bryn Edwards 

Why does psychology and philosophy begin in our human journey? What is good? What is evil? How should I live my life?

 

Richard Grannon returns to discuss the importance of continuing to wrestle with questions just like this.

 

Previously, we spoke about codependency, people pleasing, and the impact of trauma. In this conversation, we go further into why a lack of moral philosophy will leave you in a weakened and a unboundaried state that can be so easily preyed upon by the outside world. This is about our thinking, our decision making, and how we put boundaries into our life, to live a more healthy life and existence.

 

Considering your moral philosophy is not as difficult as you think, but it’s possibly more important than you may ever consider; there’s a strong suggestion that this may also sit at the heart of some of our rising mental health issues.

 

As always, speaking to Richard was a true privilege and honour he has a group he’s incredibly articulate, has an amazing sense of humour. This conversation pushed me right to the forefront of my thinking currently, and possibly right to the forefront of my use of language, as you will see, so enjoy, Richard.

 

Bryn Edwards 

Hello, and welcome back to W a real. I’m your host, Bryn Edwards. Today I have the great pleasure of welcoming back Mr. Richard granite. Richard, welcome to the show.

 

Richard Grannon 

Thank you very much for having me on again. Bryn it’s pleasure.

 

Bryn Edwards 

No, thank you, thank you. And so last time it was the world this time is the Dominican Republic,

 

Richard Grannon 

there not much changed, the beach here is much like the beach at Hoylake. A little warmer, that’s all and there’s just different benefits.

 

Bryn Edwards 

Indeed, indeed. So I was really keen to have you back on the podcast. And the last time we were together, we really talked about the other half of the puzzle. Having dived into narcissism, we then looked at the other side of the puzzle and went into codependency, which, for I and for many of the listeners was usually triggering, which is always a good thing. And then we mentioned it benevolently triggering, and and from that, that caused a lot of deep reflection for myself. But what I started to notice was that, while I was hugely helpful, and do is there was this sense, deep sense of there was something more out there there, you know, to me as my development and and to those around me in terms of their development as a grownup as an adult. And at the same sort of time, I started to notice that you were talking more about going beyond psychology and into sort of moral philosophy. And I know that you’ve spoken a fair bit about that on your channel. So I guess the first question, just to put some personal context around, it was, what was it that was emerging for you personally, when you started to sense that you were sort of going from one topic to another?

 

 

And?

 

Richard Grannon 

Wow, it’s a big question. And a couple of songs just just came to me then when you said that the issue of codependency was triggering and created, you know, some good, good conflict, all Shadow Work should be triggering, and it should be very, very uncomfortable Shadow Work in the European sense. This year 2020. I’ve particularly noticed, while Shadow Work becomes more pertinent as we see a collective shadow emerging that possesses people in exactly the way that young predicted, I was not, I’ve never been very impressed with them. Until this year, and Shadow Work, I thought it was kind of at the New Age end of the spectrum of psychology, not particularly interesting for me. But this year, really, my respect for yawn has gone through the roof and the focus on Shadow Work, and its pertinence is really, really increased for me. And I think that psychology has its own shadow, as in the field of psychology has a shadow, to the extent that the human shadow, according to you, is everything that we that is part of us, but that we disavow. And if you think of what a shadow is, you have an object light hits the object, and the shadow is cast based on where the light cannot pass through. So it’s the non conscious, it’s the non light. It’s the dark, it’s the unconscious. psychology has an unconscious, and it disavows things. And then, probably at the beginning of the year, people were recommending me the book the courage to be disliked, which is translated from Japanese into English, and as a study of adland, who was appear of Young’s They were they were both friends with Freud for a while. It’s a it’s not a very well written book, but it’s a good introduction to Adler. And so I started to through Adler, and young beginning of this year, and then through the events of this year, I started to look and just ask myself that question, you know, what, what does the field of psychology imply? When we talk in its terms, and we use its coordinates? It enforces the shadow element onto us. That’s the nature of language, because language is a map. And on a map, there is that which is not. And it also forms the map, it’s a difficult idea to grasp. But on any map of reality, there is that which is anything that’s what a map is, of course it is. It’s a map is a hill is a tree is a door, but it is also mapping that which is not that which is not there. And these things could be equally important. So in a roundabout way to answer your question. I was noticing, though, is that the way we’re talking about psychology, recreates trauma repeats, and reinforces traumatic patterns of behaviour because if you’re traumatised, you’re weakened, and it further weakens a person psychology actually further weakens people in many ways. Adler was very clear on this young, lesser Freud, really not at all. And, and it really weakens people. So so what what do we need, and the only place I could find what we need? Were in philosophy, outside the boundaries of psychology, because psychology can’t, and probably rightly, shouldn’t talk about morality, because it’s, it’s always relative. And it’s always culture bound and psychology probably should try not to be moral morally, what would you say like morally deterministic, it should be morally relative, and it should be it should look at, it should look with fluidity at different people’s experiences. That’s right for the study of psychology. But it’s not a way to live your life. If you try to live your life by psychologies coordinates, you’ll get very sick.

 

Bryn Edwards 

Yeah. So when you say weakens people, how does it do that?

 

Richard Grannon 

Well, again, it’s the I don’t know if people or how many people would be interested, does it deserve a Slovenian philosopher called Slava jack. He’s very famous as a philosopher, who’s a psychoanalyst first. And it was also through listening to him, he kept on talking about the unconscious and the reality of the virtual and how that which is not effects things. And I was like, This is too high level for me. So I’m a former nightclub bouncer, I don’t get this. It’s too soon intellectual for me. And it took me about three years. And eventually I was I was waiting to get onto a plane, I was in a queue to board a plane. And I had been playing in my ears. And it just clicked. I was like, Oh, that’s what he means. So there’s this, there’s this issue of the presupposition and the assumptions and the coordinates. There’s a presupposition to what we’re doing. We’re creating a podcast with a presupposition that we’re going to say something interesting, the coordinates we’re operating from, is that through the conversation between me and you, people will consume it, and enjoy it and get something useful and interesting from it. And we don’t say it, we don’t say it explicitly, but it’s kind of assumed. I mean, otherwise, why? Why would we do so that so it becomes then it becomes performed, there’s a performance element to it that otherwise wouldn’t be there for it just as a as a simple example. So the coolness of psychology are as follows. You are sick, you are weak, there is something wrong with you. Now, let’s begin our conversation. It’s silent. Nobody says that. But it’s fully implicit. It’s fully employed. You can’t get away from that in psychology. People in the comments will say, No, no, my School of Psychology doesn’t do that. My School of Psychology is positive, we assume. I’m sorry, nonsense. Nobody ever escaped Freud, no psychologist anywhere in the world, anywhere in human history. Ever escape Freud? Were all his children were all his grandchildren. He his granddaddy, and nobody escaped him. Even people who love him and did everything they could to cleanse Freud from their own systems never did because you can’t, you can’t do it. So the presupposition of psychology is you’re a broken vessel and you need something putting into you Sorry to be so Freud in a sexual but it goes to that it’s a consumerist endeavour. I need something thing, thing, psycho psychoanalytic theory, I need the thing in me, which is Freud and its sexual to make me hold to make me better. And there are many schools of philosophy that would say, No, you don’t know and they’re older than psychology by 1000s. have yours? And they say no, you don’t you need less. You think you need something? You think you need ideology, entertainment and psychology? You need less you want the thing? But you need no thing. You need that which is not. Is this a bit? Is this a bit airy fairy? Me?

 

Bryn Edwards 

No, because what you described there is the underpinning of our modern consumer capitalist world, which is what we talked about in the last podcast, which is, you know, it, one of the things I was thinking about when you said that there is is even even your modern day, even your modern day, you know, life coach or something like that, who who has, who will say, you know, I’m not all the way into the psychology stuff, you know, to do better life coaching a bit of NLP in this than the other, but how do you sell? How do you sell the service? Yeah, we’re broke. And I have the solution. Come to me, we’ll fix it. Yeah. Yeah.

 

Richard Grannon 

And it’s, it’s, it’s across the board. And you, you know, you nailed it there. Because you said the word sell, you can’t sell it, you can’t sell nothing. You must have a thing. So implicit within psychology for the psychologists, who know a lot about about psychoanalytic theory is it’s riddled with object fetishism. It’s riddled with. Thing focused on this object fetishism, we think the thin will save us we think the thing is imbued with magic, all of our advertising, all of our marketing, all of our propaganda, all of our films are reinforcing this toxic idea that there’s a thing that saves you, it could be a person, it could be a magic tool, it could be a weapon, it could be whatever relationship becomes a thing, a thing to be consumed, love becomes a thing to be consumed. And there is no thing there’s nothing there. So it’s, it’s it’s kind of a hard doctrine to grasp. But it is much healthier, much, much healthier. And as you said, sell things only things can be sold. Somebody asked me the other day about martial arts and how many martial arts are there in the world? And I was saying to them, Listen, if you look at China, and you look at Kung Fu, just China, the country of China, over the centuries, people have you logged over 600 different purported styles, just in China alone. Some people say it’s over over 1000 different styles of martial arts, all humans, one head, two arms, two legs, all claiming to move in distinct and significant ways. So so that so that there can be no overlap that boundary separate styles. It’s nonsense. It’s a sales pitch. The whole of the state that one area of martial arts, riddled with consumerism, riddled with object fetishism, riddled with magical thinking, that martial arts imagine, expand that out from that one small area to whatever subject you like. And you’ll never get away from this. The human desire for content is infinite. The heat wants people have been infected with object fetishism, their greed for things, and I don’t always mean material, the physical thing, it could be an intellectual thing. It’s got your appetite is endless.

 

Bryn Edwards 

There’s a line that I’m loving it. And we cause Yeah, the particularly the content as well, because we have gone from not just consuming physical things, but now to you know, sound, even this bloody podcast that we’re talking to now will be content to somebody. And they will be here because they think that they will get something from this conversation which Yes, yeah. So on one level worsen, and switch off right now.

 

Richard Grannon 

Yeah, exactly. Well, if we’re feeding the beast, we are feeding the beast because apart from the greed, I think at this fatigue, user, this content, greed and this content fatigue, now, a lot of people are just completely burnt out and overstuffed. With, with content, they’re totally overstuffed. And it’s actually stressful. Even though people are enjoying it. Not everything that feels good is good for you. Not everything that feels bad is bad for you. Just because you’re enjoying stuffing yourself with content. And it doesn’t mean that it is improving you and meaningful way. And I think a lot of people really are suffering from copper consumption, fatigue and content fatigue. And they could do with a lot less in their lives. Now try and sell that idea. just

 

Bryn Edwards 

assuming nothing.

 

 

So yes. So,

 

Bryn Edwards 

with that in mind when we start talking about moral philosophy, just so we’re crystal here, what exactly do you mean when you’re talking about moral philosophy? Big question.

 

 

And

 

Richard Grannon 

loving many things that I have to do you know, in my role as life coach, content provider, online, psychobabble speaker, and what I’m trying to help people, and I want to actually make a difference, my fantasy is that people could listen something I’ve said, try an exercise that told them to do for a week and really have their life checked, really have that perception change forevermore. That’s my fantasy. I think sometimes it works. Sometimes I’ve been successful. But you can’t always tell people what you’re really doing until after they’ve done it, because otherwise they won’t do it, and they won’t receive the benefit of it. So when I encourage people to engage in developing a moral philosophy, what I’m really asking them to do is to think, and to make decisions and draw boundaries. But if I say we’re going to teach you how to think they’ll say, well, screw you, Richard grant, and you don’t tell me how to think you already know how to make decisions and how to draw boundaries. They go, that sounds very adult and dry and boring. And you’re gonna ask me to do my accounts afterwards, and then he won’t listen. Whereas if you say something somewhat vague or like, let’s develop a moral philosophy, some people I don’t know. That’s weird. I’ll listen to him for five minutes and see what he has to say.

 

Bryn Edwards 

highfalutin almost.

 

Richard Grannon 

Yeah, yeah, kinda was kind of pompous, which I like. We’re pompous gentlemen. And I do think, you know, there is a real appetite for this out there. I think like when you look at the rise of public intellectuals like Jordan Peterson, that was really one of the core things we’re talking object fetishism things that he offered was the ability for people to reclaim a moral philosophy. Now, he was preachy, rigid, and didactic, and that which is fine, because people had a taste for it, they wanted to be spanked and had the finger wag that and be told what to do. Because everybody was telling them, do whatever you want. So they had the desire for the opposite flavoured thing to consume. And, and he was that, and, but when people are recovering from trauma, and when they’re getting through a life that is fundamentally traumatic, people do need to know the difference between right and wrong. And there being that distinction is being eroded every day. So you’re being given content. brainwashing, that says nothing is right. Nothing is wrong, everything is relative, do what you want. Do what you feel, feel good, feel good, feel good all the time, consume, consume, consume, keep pushing the pleasure button, keep ranking, keep watching porn, keep eating McDonald’s, if it feels good, do it. The opposite, the opposite flavour is we’ll learn to distinguish right from wrong. make a commitment. That’s right. And I do that even if it sucks. And that’s wrong. I don’t do that, even if it feels great. And that’s really where I was hoping to lead people to because they’re telling me that they feel crazy. They’re telling me they feel insane. They’re telling me they have mental health issues, whilst living in a culture that, of course, is going to drive you completely insane. If you’ve got if you live by the current. If you live a normal life now, you will go batshit crazy inside of five years. Yeah.

 

Bryn Edwards 

100%. And the thing that’s, that’s been a big theme for me of recent, which is that we sort of spoke about forehand is that there seems to be the story that everyone’s going along with. But at the same time, no fucking believes that. And, and, okay, we could use COVID. But there’s so many other things in our lives, you know, we’re becoming more and more aware of stories that we’ve bought into all of our lives, but all of a sudden that we’re almost been jettison out of them. And it’s Hi. Well, and I’ve heard you speak before about the more that you the more that you say that you agreed to do something under almost duress, whether it’s from a you know, overbearing narcissistic partner or whether it’s from a from a boss or whether it’s from just the system and you’re forced to say I like this, even though deep down you don’t that more that’s going to scramble a mess, any sort of underlying neural network or framework that you have in place already.

 

Richard Grannon 

Yes, yes, there was a British psychiatrist who worked in the prison system system. And he was quoted in Douglas Murray’s book, his last book, not the strange death of Europe. Oh my god, I can’t remember the name of his last book. It’s very good book. It’ll come to me. And he said that when you force a population to tell lies and to repeat things that they know are not true. You have communism, writ small, communism writ small. And the effect of that is humiliation. You can you humiliate and demotivate the population. So, if you wanted a full broad scale, hostile takeover, takeover, style in style, mouth style hokey mens style, you start by policing words and thoughts and getting people to say things and agree to things that they think know in their core and you’re in your soul in your heart. You know, it’s wrong, you know, it’s wrong you there’s no way that you would believe that, but you have to go along because everybody else’s. And you think, well, that’s just a small thing. I won’t die on that hill, I’ll let that happen. But actually, it’s not a small thing. The little lie leads to the big lie. And we know that it was a brainwashing to technique. Under humans, regime. Well, it wasn’t a brainwashing technique. It was a way of breaking American soldiers that they taken prisoner. They would say, say that you hate America. No, I love America. Screw you. Okay, no problem. You love America, but we believe you. You’re a good soldier, you’re doing a job? Is there one thing you don’t like about America? Just one thing, anything, anything? Listen, there’s a lovely hotmail over there, we’ll give you some rice and chicken, just write down on a piece of paper. For me, one thing that ticks you off, could be traffic, could be taxes, could be anything. So they would they would get them say one thing. And then inside of three or four weeks, they’d be on TV, saying that they were denouncing American, they thought that communism was a good idea. The folks back home would watch that in American South, they must have tortured them Tibet, they must have pulled effect. No, they didn’t. They didn’t, they just got them to admit one thing, just one little boundary break. And then from there, you can you can tear the whole thing that. So the effect of saying things that we know are not true, as you rightly say, is humiliation, the motivation and domination in the end, we just end up submitting because with showing ourselves that we’re shitty people that we’re not worth fighting for. So why would we? Why fight? Why bother?

 

 

So it goes around full circle back into this whole codependency of becoming then I want a master and a slave. And I’ll abdicate our responsibility. And that’s where we were in the last discussion. But I guess what I can see now is, is that that just any sort of moral framework that you might have might have been imparted into you from mom, dad, brothers, sisters, teachers, you know, is good and wholesome, let alone less than that. We’ll just get scrambled over a period of time. And you’ll lose touch with that.

 

Richard Grannon 

Yes, yes. And I do, I do suspect that children are born with a moral framework. And you often hear toddlers, one of the toddlers complaints, well, from the moment children can speak, is they’ll complain that things are not fair. And even if they’re wrong, it shows that they have a very strong sense that they want things to be fair. And if they’re not fat, they get really pissed off, they get angry and sad. So I think it’s something that we’re born with. And it’s really in the core of our beings, we have a sense of right and wrong, we already know. But if we can, if if people in power can convince their subjects that they don’t know that they’re wrong, about what’s right and wrong, that they’re confused, that their morality is askew, or, then you can break them, you can break them down, and you can do things to them, or make them do things to each other that are completely wrong. And they become useful idiots. You know, make them execute other humans that who are from the same nation as them. And on some very odd, non scientific ideas, you know, as the Nazis did with the Jews, something. I was scrolling through Instagram this morning, and I was looking at a photograph taken. I just captured a moment of a group of Nazis standing behind, presumably a Jewish guy in a suit, about to be shot in the head and dropped into a mass grave. And you kind of think they’re all Germans. Everybody in that picture is German. They all raise speaking German. They’re all neighbours until, you know, four to 10 years before this picture was taken. These were not these were not outsiders, they were dentists, accountants, they were bankers. They were writing They were integral parts of society. And within a relatively short period of time, they’ve been completely demonised and other eyes and the humans in that picture. You know, you say, well, they’re all psychopaths. And you just think statistically, that’s not possible. They can’t all be psychopaths. They can’t. There’s just not in any population, you can have a psychopathic culture. Okay. Yes. And that is and was a psychopathic culture. But every human in that picture is not a psychopath. Not possible. It’s just not possible. What they are is people who would go in along, and they’re doing what they’re told. And they’ve got the uniform on, and they’ve been given their orders, and they might not like it, and they might whinge about it. And they might grumble about it as soldiers do they spend most of their time whingeing. Everybody knows that. It’s about their work in. But they still somebody put the people onto the cars, somebody took them to the place, somebody dug the grave, and then somebody else note them down, and then other maps along and shoots them in the back of the head. Why? Because we’re going along with it. We’re making orders. We’re doing what we’ve been told to do. And certain point I think you have to start questioning the validity of that being a moral philosophy. It’s not a moral philosophy to say I do as I’m told. That’s not a fucking moral.

 

Bryn Edwards 

Claim morality again, isn’t it?

 

Richard Grannon 

I think it’s exactly exactly that. Exactly. What a great point. It is slave morality. It’s nature’s slave morality. It’s a fake morality. It’s a junk morality.

 

 

Yeah. And we’ll come back to that junk in just a sec. But again, I’ve had a podcast guest, Thomas Bjorkman puts it beautifully. It’s like, so connection with this collector, he calls it a collective imaginary. And he gives the example of and money. Now we both carry on, like both are equally as important. And we couldn’t live without either. But the truth is, if we made the decision to try and give a pair tomorrow, we wouldn’t really get very far. Whereas if we do, we could give up money tomorrow. Yeah. But yeah, you can’t go and do that on your own. Because you can’t go into a supermarket tomorrow, and then say, Well, you know, I don’t believe in the concept of money, because you’re not going to get very far, you’re gonna end up quite hungry. Yeah, but the challenging thing is, is that when we all buy into that same money, but then all of a sudden, you see another fellow human on the street, with nowhere to go, and no food. And that’s all because we’re buying into this collective imaginary, around money. And that’s why, and I think, for me, that’s where this boundary between psychology and philosophy started to emerge for me, because it’s all very well, me doing the work on me and drop, you know, traumas come up, and there are things to work through. And yes, I do need to take responsibility of behaviours and stuff like that. But it’s very much for me, it was very much me inside bread, that brings an independent Ireland to bring bring also interacts with the outside world, if I start, I mean, just the inner world of Britain and become a bit intense to come a bit boring are can become a bit egocentric. And Jeremy is not a member of the community. And, and that in and of itself, then, you know, leads you as a lonely person and all of that. So, I found that that’s where the boundary came from it. You just talked there about forementioned, slave morality or society to talk about junk values. And you mentioned this earlier on that. How much do you think that some of our and I’m going to use the bunny ears here, mental health issues, when we cling to words that are quite in Vogue, such as anxiety or depression, are not actually emotive? Well, they’re not probably are some sort of emotive response, but really, it’s a response to the fact that you’re living a shite life based off junk values, which you’ve bought into which have no grounding have no, they’re not like bringing this sort of life shrinking almost. And, and it can leave you feeling kind of dead and hollow inside. Does that make sense?

 

Richard Grannon 

So I’ll be careful when I answer that question. I I hope that people can hear me when when I answer it this way. If you

 

 

were,

 

Richard Grannon 

if we’re being good statisticians, and this was a psychology experiment, and we really wanted an answer to the question you posed, and it’s a good question, and I hope somebody does do the psychology experiment. And if you say, of what percentage of people who say they have mental health issues, actually are just living the right symptoms of a ship life, I would say 99.9% now, I did not say that 99 9.9% of all men have genuine mental health issues are the result of living a short life. That’s really sad. But the overwhelming majority of people who will tell you, I have anxiety, I have depression, I’m on pills, I have this I have that. It’s just the symptom, the right symptoms of living a short life and I say the right symptoms, because you should have symptoms, when you do the wrong thing you should be paid. When you do something stupid when you put your hand in a hot place, it should burn it shouldn’t there should be there should be no consequence. So the consequence of living, of watching six hours of TV a day, eating junk food, doing a job, you’re going from the office to the to the living room to the bedroom over and over and over again. Yes, you’ll get anxious and depressed because you know what, you’re not evolved for that. That’s not the entity that you are, that’s the animal that you are, you know, beyond the fluorescent lighting all day, breathing, you know, inside house air, it’s crap. It’s just a crap quality of life. When it comes to authentic mental health issues, it’s very hard. What’s impossible, in fact, to draw the boundary between real mental health issues and mental health issues that just come from bad life. Because, look, most mental health issues I believe, are caused by trauma, and a normal life is traumatic. It’s very traumatic. It’s like being in prison. Our hyper normalised modern life is prison. Now, you might say that’s a ridiculous assertion. And I would say, Well, what happens when people get richer, they just go to a bigger size south, they just go to a bigger city, you go to a slightly better prison, maybe that prison has a swimming pool and a tennis score, but still a prison. Nobody’s free. Nobody’s free point. I defy anybody who’s listening to this, say in the comments point to a free person. Point, tell me who is free. We don’t just act makes this point sideways does that makes this point we lack the words to describe our on freedom? So it exists again, in the unconscious exists again, in the shadow? We can’t say we say this freedom. Okay. And what about our own freedom? We don’t have the words for it. We can’t express the ways in which we’re not free. What a wonderful domination, what a wonderful form of totalitarianism we’re living in now. Perfect. You can’t fight it. What are you rebelling against Netflix, on fast food, Uber Eats and to your door delivery of whatever type of food you want. You’re free, you have every conflict you could wish for inside your presence inside your presence. So it’s a perfect form of totalitarianism we’re living in now.

 

Bryn Edwards 

It is and that’s it, you the lack of words, the lack of lexicon lack of actual dictionary around this is, is something that is bugged the shit out of me for a while, because lightning is somewhere down in Britain, there is a pretty good, strong moral compass. And yeah, I’ve wavered from it like we all have, and, but a reason there’s been something that is just fundamentally wrong, it’s been there for three or four, five years for me. And then this year, it started to come. And I feel like I’ve started to feel the edges of it, and then talking to people like you before, and others have meant that I can just start to describe something and get, because the moment without getting to an object fetish, the moment you can become from being subject into having it as the object when it is the moment you can start to see it, feel it, implement it, and be a little bit free from it. Does that

 

Richard Grannon 

make sense? Absolutely, absolutely. If you can name it, you can probably tame it, if you can say what it is. Even if you never fully recover from it, at least you have the relief of knowing it’s not you you’re not it’s not that because you’re crazy or you’re broken, or you’re weak, there’s a there’s something there is a thing, there’s a something there really is something that that needs to be identified and locked out.

 

 

So if we flip this

 

Bryn Edwards 

from if we flip this from for the junk and all the crap, and I think we’ve pretty much identified some of the major common sources and and if if you still want more, I suggest you have a good walk without a phone or anything and have a good think about stuff. we flip it on its head now. What are some of the components of each person’s moral philosophy on one level is going to be relatively subjective because there’s otherwise it becomes quite dogmatic? it you know, it’s, thou shalt do this on a Tuesday and I don’t and somebody doesn’t do it, then it is you know, and then we’re back into religion and was unconscious. prison doors and things like that. So there has to be an element of nuance and context around. What does what does that healthy? What is it? What are healthy frames within our moral floss, we start to look like

 

Richard Grannon 

that the beginning of it. What I encourage people to do is to ask simple questions, simple philosophical questions that philosophers have wrestled with, with for 1000s of years. And it’s your birthright to ask these questions. And I would also say, if you’ve never asked them, you’re missing out, and you’re very vulnerable, you’re very vulnerable to abusive people, you know, vulnerable to abusive systems. So start with the simple ones. What is good? What is evil? How should a person live? How should a person live their lives? Simple, simple philosophical questions. Books, in almost infinite number of books have been written trying to answer those three simple questions. You don’t need an answer. You need to have the strength to wrestle with the questions. So it’s like, it’s like a strength training, a mental strength training drill. Because every day will be a new answer. As soon as you say you’ve got the answer, by the way. So what is good, what is evil? How should a person have their lives, you become what is known technically, as an asshole, as an article, because you’ll start telling people, you’ve got the answer. You don’t. Nobody ever got the answer. You’re not supposed to get the answer. That’s all that fetishism. And it’s also control freakery, which we can get into everyone’s talking about that. But you’re supposed to value the question, and you’re supposed to be trying to answer it, trying and failing daily. That’s what training is. You try and fail, try and fail, try and fail. What for? What’s the end goal? There isn’t really an end goal, making you stronger. Build skill gives you the capacity to think it gives you the capacity to question so that you don’t have a hysterical ship fare and a temper tantrum like a toddler. When somebody comes on and questions your worldview and questions your chosen believe ease. That’s a Louie ck the stand up comedian Louie ck, called these things believe these people get attached, like to, to a teddy bear, or a dummy, or a pacifier to their special little beliefs. And if you touch them, and you touch their toys, or you question their toys, they have a ship fit. Well, that’s because they’re not strong. They’re not asking good philosophical questions. They’re not capable of critical thought. They’re not be able have contradictory opinions. And they become so fragile, and so became so thin skinned, that they perceive a contradiction of their believers in their preferred map of reality, as a kind of threat as an existential threat as a threat to their existence itself. Which is just a way to live. It’s not a way for an adult to function in the world. Many people do.

 

 

So let me say that again. It’s very fragile. Yeah. Yeah,

 

Richard Grannon 

we are fragile. Now. We’re very weak. Very, very weak. Oh, my God, you know, you wouldn’t, you wouldn’t need the Nazis to roll down the street and tanks with guns threatening to put people in concentration camps. And now you just switch off there. And after 24 hours, they’ll lick your boots for you.

 

Bryn Edwards 

rectory I think, I think, again, one of the things you were saying there about just the fragility of it and the I think one of the things that for me is is holding my worldviews, but then going and listening to other people’s podcasts will do that for you. Because you talk and talk and talk talk Well listen, to listen to listen to listen. But it’s the fragility for me as well as the active is a complete lack of active pursuit of other people’s perspectives. Yeah, and, and allowing their perspectives to come in even if they conflict with yours and and get to expand, expanding your worldview expanding your life view and things like that. And so I think the say so many find so many people say I don’t like conflict and stuff like that, and half the time it’s like, I’m not talking about conflict, I’m just doing basic collision in life. And, and just rubbing off against one another. I mean, you know, I, for all the ups and downs of going to a boarding school, which you know, when wicked outrageous one of the great things was was you got a lot of edges knocked off really quickly. Then you got feedback back really quickly. And you know, anybody who’s grown up with two or three siblings will have had the same thing as well. And which is probably why sometimes only children seem somewhat precocious because they haven’t had brothers and sisters to you know, sometimes not shut up and stuff. Like that, and we’ve become, on top of all the weakness in the Netflix and this, that the other we, we don’t even seem to actually sit down and converse anymore. I mean, I’ve got this sort of inner urge to bring back salons back here in Western Australia where people turn up in that and you talk and for high quality disagreement and respectful disagreement is in that we can build something out. And yeah, do you see where I’m going with that?

 

Richard Grannon 

100% and I find myself, you know, I listen to people like, like I said, I read Douglas Murray’s book, and I listened to Douglas Murray all the time. He’s a devout Christian. I am not but he’s also a boarding school boy. So we have the three of us have something in common there is a devout Christian, which I’m not quite rigidly moralistic, which are not, and he’s a right winger. Well, I’m a lefty leftists and I’m left on, but he’s an intelligent man who can formulate ideas with erudition, and eloquence. And it is a pleasure to listen to somebody just form that I disagree with him. I disagree with Jordan Peterson, but at least there’s some erudition there. And in my mind, I can say, Well, you know, here’s four ways in which that idea can be challenged and should be, I don’t hate him, I don’t want to kill him. I don’t want to talk to the platform. I’m just in my mind, I’m just practising. It’s wrestling. It’s like it’s something it’s back to the Spartans, I guess, what would they do, they would wrestle, and they found it just as useful to wrestle and fight and to practice the art of war as they would argumentation and poetry. So can you? Can you turn up and wrestle with an idea, with the same spirit and good natured sportsmanship that you would wrestle with a physical person, a human being, you should be able to do that if you want to be a well rounded human being. And yet, we really lost that because, you know, the good old rants about social media, but I think it’s beyond social medias culture, in general, we’re living through a very solipsistic, self indulgent time. And if you only stay inside your echo chamber, intellectually, you’re doing nothing more than masturbation, it’s nothing more than mental masturbation, you’re not being challenged, you’re not growing, you’re not engaging in a strength training regime, where you’re adding the reps, and you’re adding the weights, and you’re adding the pressure, because it’s a no pressure environment, because we are beginning to learn to experience pressure as conflict. And you go, No, no, no, no, there’s no conflict here. There’s pressure, it’s just pressure, enjoy it grow, you will be strengthened. Trust yourself, comrades, you know, you have the strength to deal with this name, and many other things besides Trust me.

 

Bryn Edwards 

And it’s also okay, within the scope of a discussion to openly admit, well, you know, I came into this discussion with this point of view, and I’m going to leave it with this point of view. You know, and when,

 

Richard Grannon 

when was when was the last time you ever saw that online?

 

Bryn Edwards 

I mean, yeah, I mean, I’ve I spoke in length, in a presentation earlier this year, we always come addicted to knowing things and being right and because what’s the consequence of not being right? We look like, you know, in theory, you look like an idiot. And then

 

 

Hmm, do you?

 

Bryn Edwards 

Do you think that this couple of ideas have been rattling around in my head for a while? Do you think that this or almost go, going through the ring of some sort of codependency, then coming out? Then realising that it’s now time for me to instil my set of moral moral values and grounding and stuff like that? He’s not part of the human journey. And it’s just been amped up and the context has changed.

 

 

Yes.

 

Richard Grannon 

Yes. Is the answer to your question. I sort of, I want to I want to add a question to is it’s like, what is our vision of what human beings should be? Are we trying to create a nation of philosopher kings and philosopher queens? Do we want people to be everything they can be and to fulfil their full potential, or do we want them obedient, broken, consuming taxpaying slaves? It’s a simple, simple distinction because we can’t have both kind of Yeah. Obviously, we know which version of reality we’re living in. It’s clear that when children go to school, what they’re being set up for is not to raise them to be philosopher games, who would overthrow the week who are predating upon them from the top down. So is it part of the human journey? It is, if we have a vision of who we want to be as strong, if our vision of a utopian world is not a nation populated by strong individuals who can challenge those in power and those who take power. But our vision of utopia is every single one of our once is tended to, the words are policed to a nuance the thoughts and beliefs to perfection? No, because they anything that would ever offend me, I’d never come across an idea that hurt me or that wounded me or that challenged me in any meaningful way. I was completely protected. May rough men who I never see, you know, God, the walls of my perfect prison paradise. If that’s your utopia, then we’re moving in another direction. So it depends on the vision, it depends on what we’re trying to move towards. I’ve never held much value for archetypes when Jordan Peterson goes on about archetypes and references young always left me old. I always think well, what the what’s the point of that? What’s the use of it? This year, I’ve realised that many of the archetypes are ideals that were supposed to aspire to. Not all of them, obviously, but many of them are. And to that extent, I see their value. So yeah, we need to choose an ideal to aspire to, that will fail to meet will be bad philosopher kings will be bad philosopher queens will screw it up, we’ll have bad days, we’ll get wrong ideas. And, you know, we’ll fail because we’ll be weak and will be cowardly. But at least we’re trying to move towards that. We’re not even trying that right now. We’re just twitching, slobbering slobs ingesting more and more crap, intellectually and physically.

 

Bryn Edwards 

Mm hmm. Because I get I get concerned that, and that’s why I love that answer. Because I get concerned that we are over pathologizing where we are in the world. And in doing that, it’s the bad human that’s done all of this, you know, and therefore we’re back into that whole, I am a bad boy and girl, we are the bad human, you know. And it’s the human since we turned up where the virus on the planet were the ones that we’ve done is that, and I’m coming to this slightly more controversial view that it’s kind of necessary. And we’re at a point now where, for years, we’ve been happy to abdicate our responsibility, our morals, our decisions to higher authority, and more and more those higher authorities that we’ve had, have collapsed. You know, it’s kind of, you know, one country could come in and save another country or this than the other, but we’re so interconnected now that we’re at a global level, where there is no way out, you know, unless an aliens are gonna come down to this and the other, but there is, there is no other bunch of guys that are going to come and save savers from the bad guy. You know, that. You know, it’s easy to have this conspiracy theory or you know, there’s these good guys the Q anon fighting for is behind the thing and this? No, I think we’ve we’ve escalated and evolved and developed to a point of complexity now where there is no more space for abdication of responsibility. And we’ve got to seriously start doing some fucking work. We can’t abdicate out anymore. Do you see where I’m going? Not 100. Now, some of the things that we’ve missed. The level of complexity has got to such a point that we can’t talk about anymore, but that’s brilliant in and of itself.

 

Richard Grannon 

does a really strange and horrifying cowboy film. It didn’t do very well. It’s kind of a cult movie from a few years ago. It’s called bone Tomahawk. I don’t recommend people watch it because it gave me nightmares for months. But in that film, whenever somebody is about to be killed in a horrific way, they are told by their compatriots Don’t worry, the cavalry is coming. The cavalry and it’s almost like the words the cavalry is coming within the next seven to 10 seconds. Somebody’s being chopped up. scalped splitting Half raped, you know, it’s horrendous, but every single time and that if anyone that has the stomach for it watches that film, whenever they’re told the cavalry is coming turn away from the screen. The cavalry is not coming. The monsters are here and the end that we are facing now. You know, people say oh you conspiracy theorists to Chicken Little you’re saying the sky is falling. We are on the precipice of something truly awful. We have in historical terms, a few seconds to do something about that. A few moments, nothing more. If we don’t do something about it, we will be in a very bad place very, very soon. far worse than anything we’ve seen in 2020. far worse, it’s just around the corner. We have a chance we could do something about it. But that that opening is shrinking daily. Mm hmm. Nobody’s coming to save us. It’s just us.

 

Bryn Edwards 

It’s just done with our, with our moral framework. trauma. You been for cooperate?

 

Richard Grannon 

Yeah, yeah. And we aren’t stupid. You know, like, if somebody said to me,

 

 

You

 

Richard Grannon 

were horrifying and terrifying. And also, in a way exhilarating idea. You’re told it’s just you like, you’re the best. We’ve got Bryn, you’re the best we’ve got me. You don’t know how daft I am. You don’t know how I waste my time. Sometimes you don’t know how cranky I am if I haven’t slept. But it’s just stops. Now in times gone by. Historically, people just knew that they lived it. And they they knew they were in history. We feel as though we’re not we’re indoctrinated to think history is over. So very much very actually classically Marxist idea that we live with, which is we’re already in the end of history. And it’s written. There’s nothing you can do. This is this is the Chinese Communist Party enforces this idea on its people. Yeah. I think we discussed this before. They’ve banned books in China and communist China, talking about time travel, science fiction books and films that discuss or show time travel is banned in China, because they don’t want people to to develop. They think the idea of people imagining a different time. And a different place is dangerous to their leadership. It’s dangerous their leadership, so they ban it. folks think about that for a second. Are we living in that time are we are living in that same soup? You know, there’s nothing you can do. history’s already written, you don’t have a hand in it. So give up people in time gone times gone by far less technology, far less connectivity, far less resources, they still lived with the idea that there was something that could be done, that they could change things that they could make a difference that even if the odds were stacked against them, you can think of the United Kingdom facing down the might of Nazi Germany was not looking good for us for a couple of months there, there was a very real prospect that we would be speaking German and inside of a few years, didn’t go that way. Because people didn’t give up hope they didn’t they didn’t let go of their ideals we could have, we could have negotiated many, many people, including the royal family, we’re all for negotiation. We’re also forming an alliance with Nazi Germany, we could have been Hitler’s homeys. And that’s how history would have remembered it. But for a few strong willed people who did have a moral philosophy, who said no, no matter what happens, no matter what happens, we’re not doing that. We’re not going to ally ourselves with lunatics and psychopaths. And say this because it is wrong. And that was their justification. It wasn’t because it was profitable. It wasn’t because it was comfortable. It wasn’t because it would lead to more Netflix and more fast food. It was why are we not doing that? Because it’s wrong. And we don’t do the wrong thing. We do the right thing.

 

Bryn Edwards 

How somebody spends it’s one of the interesting questions as well about this ease, because there’s always that point. There is that point somewhere in your teenage years where you kind of know what’s right. And then the naughty boy or the naughty girl in the group does something you know is wrong, but it’s kind of thrilling. And then you bypass your own, your own morals and your own values. And then you start to get into this whole thing of, well, you know, you make up for yourself. And then to me, it’s almost like later in life, this is going to become critically important where it’s up to you now to become self offer authoring in life of your life and your values. It’s one thing to sit in journal out most days. What is good, what is evil? What does a good life look like? How do we then convert that into boundaries and drawing a line in the outside world? Because that’s the big scary bit, because you can you can be the greatest philosopher king in your own journal.

 

Richard Grannon 

Yes. That the expression for that is you lack the courage, you would be lacking the courage of your convictions? I think the expression for that? Yes, I think, I think for most people, maybe I’m a little optimistic here, but I think for most people, they’ve just never done the exercise. When you actually do write it down. And you actually do spend time just, again, not trying to find an answer. Nobody has the answer for God’s sake. Yeah, you must wrestle with it. wrestle with wrestle with the notion wrestle with the concept, fight with it daily, you’ll have a different answer tomorrow. You say this is what is good today. And then tomorrow, your individual answer will be slightly different in a nuanced, but important way. When you do spend a lot of time doing that. And you’re not watching six hours of TV a day, you’re now watching five and one hour is spent on that philosophical question, automatically, your unconscious will start making strong decisions. Because you’re developing a new map of reality look, via the side door, we’re creating real neuroplasticity here, we’re laying down new neural pathways, suddenly, your unconscious is going to be faced with this new concept that morality matters. And the unconscious is a sometimes functions as like a computer machine that observes you as a human being. And it goes, morality matters. How do we know it matters? Because the human that runs us is spending all this time focused on it. So whatever you focus on, you’re telling the unconscious, it matters. If you focus on cocaine, gambling and pornography, you’re training your unconscious to go, this is who we are, this is what matters, find better cocaine, find better gambling, find more porn, if you say no, we’re focusing on a moral philosophy, we’re distinguish things between right and wrong. The unconscious will take over and we’ll say, Okay, this is who we are, we are and we are an entity who’s concerned with right and wrong, find more right? Find less wrong. And it’s like, you’re rewriting the map. And then the unconscious will see you in the direction. But it does it unconsciously because because it is the unconscious. If you make it matter in your life, it will just show up for you. And you go, I made a moral decision, I could have made a lot of money working with that guy, I could have made a lot of money, or got a lot more followers if I promoted that guy. But I decided not to. I decided that wasn’t the way to go. Why? It just felt wrong to do that. Yeah, I mean, so you can you can, these things will become automatic, which is I’m very optimistic about because that which we have to do consciously, we usually forget. But once it’s gone into the unconscious, you can just kick back, you can relax, and let the unconscious do its job. Hmm.

 

Bryn Edwards 

I think also, to add to that one of the things I found this year is, is having a sensitivity to questions that all of a sudden arise and are important to you. So the biggest one that came up for me, I think I may have mentioned this before was at the start at the start of the year when we had the lockdown, and our premier came out. And next to him was the chief of place. And the premier says Right, well, I’m going to George stay at home. And I’ve empowered the chief of police to you know, sloppy bottoms. If you know, it’s boys and girls, and you don’t come in and out. But you know, they’re more serious than that. So the question that came up from me, but I like

 

Richard Grannon 

your version, though.

 

Bryn Edwards 

Yeah. Yeah. available. But it was pines and all sorts of stuff. Because, yeah, we do live in a bit, but it is a bit of a police state Western Australia. It’s like

 

Richard Grannon 

that. It’s like it was like a Benny Hill version of the police chased around by policemen spanked. Yeah.

 

Bryn Edwards 

So not quite the quite the question I came up with in the middle of hours, why do is not just why do we accept this? It’s why do we accept to community? Why do we accept to live in a community whereby it’s necessary for the premier to come out, say something? And then the next thing say, I’ve empowered the police to make sure that this is happening, right? Why do we accept anything less of a community or a society whereby, you know, a respected person who we’ve elevated to this position comes out and says, I need you to or do something and we all go, right? Yeah, by and large, we’ll do it. And then he goes on, by the way for the odd five attempts, and yeah, policeman can do this, but it’s not for all US law. And that’s To me was a very deep question because it’s like why do I accept community? Why do I accept living in a way that I do? The requires that dramatic action to be taken.

 

Richard Grannon 

One of the places where where we got to about 15 minutes ago, I was thinking I probably should raise the issue of, of control freakery. And then yeah, yeah, but this this is this has come up again, at the where we’ve gotten to, as we were talking about, when you think you’ve got the answer, you start forcing the answer on other people. And one of the questions or one of the things that we’re not looking at, but we need to look at is looking at where people are being too controlling and just saying, okay, you, you think if you kneel, a palm tree in front of me, you nail by a palm tree on a Thursday morning and say your magic words backwards, you can talk to the angel. That’s fine, me. Fine. I’m gonna stop you. You go ahead and talk to Angel Gabriel and Neil by the palm tree and say the magic words backwards. Don’t fucking tell me that I have to do it. You not case I mean, what cut if it was reduced to that level, where you say you want to do the thing? Go ahead and do the thing. But then somebody comes to my house is knocking on my door game, excuse me, I saw you kneeling by the palm tree. And the angel Gabriel did so well. I don’t wish why did why do you need me to be involved in your thing that you’re fancy, leave me alone. So anytime, the level of the philosophical questions, because that’s when things get religious and didactic, and people are issuing fat wires and burn people, and so on and so forth. We have to point that out and say, listen, you’ve got your conclusion. I love that may love it. Your poetry is beautiful, sweet meal by the pantry, chat. Cool. Go ahead. No problem with that whatsoever. And I really don’t, I really do not care. I would rather people were doing that than watching Netflix, as crazy as it sounds, rather, that they were talking to a part of themselves that they believed was this higher, angelic entity that was giving them good information and telling them how to live their lives more for that. A little bit of psychosis, never heard anybody. At the other end of the spectrum, where it’s political, we do have to look at the control freak and just call it out and say, Look, what’s the scientific data that you’re working from? Please, then tells you that this is absolutely necessary, and has to be enforced in law? Because you’re not asking me to do it. as they did in Sweden. They asked their citizens to do it. And you know, what happened in Sweden, their citizens? Did, they were asked to do it. And they did do it because it was reasonable. And science based. We’re being told, not asked, and we’re being told shut up and do as you’re told, this is the conclusion we’ve come to, and we say, Excuse me, Daddy, can you tell me why? No. Our scientists have already I’ve already drawn that conclusion. Here’s a graph. Here’s some long words that you don’t understand, because you’re not an epidemiologist. Here’s a doctor with with letters after his name that you don’t have you silly little peasants. Just do as you’re told. And I’m sort of sat here going, I don’t want to study epidemiology. But I have bothered my apps to do and I’ve listened to other biologists and I’ve listened listen to the epidemiologist and the lockdown as an example. I can’t find anybody who’s telling me that the lockdowns are actually a really good way of stopping the spread of viruses, in fact, and the who, with the World Health Organisation months ago said, We advise you to stop doing that. It’s not a good way of stopping the spread of a virus and it causes more problems than it solves the the cure is now worse than the disease. That’s the World Health Organisation. Who are these submissives? These perverts who love submitting to authority, the same do as you’re told which authority should I listen to darling? Yeah, apart? Because four months ago is the World Health Organisation. And now now they’re out of fashion, are they so I should just listen to who Boris Johnson, the great, the great virologist Boris Johnson, why I want to know how they’re coming to these conclusions and where they’re getting the data from? I don’t want to be told, do as you’re told or else so. I think it’s a perfectly valid question. Yes. What kind of society are we living in? Where this? This just happens? And everybody just goes on with it?

 

 

Are you

 

 

one of them?

 

Bryn Edwards 

Someone might listen to this. Alright, moral philosophy. Sounds like I’ve got to go and buy a few Penguin Books and get online and do that. And if you don’t know penguins, publisher for great learned books. And and that one of the things I find one of the few do as well is if you ask most people actually want to talk about this stuff, right? It’s not like, it’s not like, last time we were talking about, you know, someone’s trauma and what went on at school and whether they got buggered, or whether you know, something this any other happened, and not everybody wants to talk about us. But what’s right, what’s wrong? What could be going on with the world than this than the other?

 

 

Most people?

 

 

If

 

Bryn Edwards 

you hold enough space, I find and, you know, obviously, I don’t find it difficult because we’re doing this and just the way I do life or talk to anyone about anything, but it won’t be about shitting on transactional. And if I just hold enough space, just for a couple of minutes, make people want to talk about this stuff. Do you find the same thing?

 

Richard Grannon 

Oh, 100%, it doesn’t matter where you go in the world. Most people want to talk about it. And if you travel a lot, and you keep asking people, you’ll find this very few extremists out there. Very few, very afraid. Most people are fairly centre on the on the political spectrum, not all you will find extremists, but they’re very, very rare. Young, the impression we get from watching mainstream media is the world is full of not case, not case extremists. And you better batten down the hatches and guard your trenches with greater ferocity because the other team is coming for you. And actually, when you get out there and talk to people, you say what is right, well, you know, how do you think people should live here? They love they love having conversations about that natural, it’s very human. What did we do before television, I’m sure we just sat around the campfire and talks about that for hours.

 

Bryn Edwards 

Yeah. And the reason why I bring this up is because again, is one thing, you know, doing the work of sitting with the journal and then going out there and drawing boundaries. But another key thing is just frickin talk to people. And I’m not talking about but actually just a didactic discussion, backwards and forwards. You know, we agree respectfully to disagree at times.

 

Richard Grannon 

And talking is a skill. Everybody thinks that they can talk, everybody thinks that they can have a discussion, actually, these things are skills, and that they have rules. So when you’re being advised by Brent here to talk to people, that should be you know, 50% listening and 50% talking not you don’t talk at them. And but here’s another piece of advice when they’re talking. Don’t just think about what you’re going to say next. Listen to them. So novel idea, a crazy idea that I recommend, listen, listen, when the other person is speaking, you’ll be amazed at the amount of information they give you. Sometimes I’m doing coaching with people. They’re like, Oh, my God, are you psychic? Are you channelling? I’m like, No, no, I do this really crazy ninja CIA technique called listening. You’re giving me all the information. I need comrades. Don’t

 

 

worry. Yeah. Yeah.

 

Bryn Edwards 

Let me talk. And I listen to Greg phrase sometimes when you when you’re not doing it, and it’s like, was it she says, Sorry? Did the did the end of my sentence get in the way of the star review? Right? Sure. There you go. All that, once again, we’ve covered many topics here. And many people will stop now hopefully, benevolently be triggered through this. And one of the things as well as want to talk about is this whole concept of triggering, triggering seems to have become a real word that in the last 12 to 18 months, particular. And he’s triggered the right thing is this actually was how, what? Because I, I’ve got a framework for it. But you know, we mentioned before benevolent, the triggering people and I love her going around, poking people’s buttons is that sadistic hangover from boarding school, that what is triggering.

 

Richard Grannon 

This is how we learn to survive at boarding school, folks. I mean, I outside of the context of C, PTSD and emotional flashbacks specifically, I don’t use it. Right. And I’ll tell you, I’ll tell you, I didn’t like the word and I didn’t know why. So I sat down and had to think about it. And I did this a few times. And I was thinking, Why don’t like the word trigger. Triggers only exist on inanimate objects. You can have a dead man trigger for a suicide bomb, if you let go of it goes off as a trigger on a gun does trigger on other explosive devices. trigger is unconscious. I don’t want to be unconscious. Only functions from inanimate objects. I don’t want to be an inanimate object. A trigger only goes one way. It’s it’s It’s a very simple device a trigger, it’s straight cause and effect, you trigger something, you get an immediate effect, the trigger is the cause. And then there’s an event. And triggers go on weapons, they’re explosive, and then great destruction. And so I don’t like using the word trigger, I find it’s another way of abrogating responsibility. And so when I, when I heard it being used, as I say, I will use it if it cptsd and emotional flashbacks, because I don’t really know what other words, you know, maybe I would say, provokes an emotional flashback or, you know, induces an emotional flashback. But we are not machines, we’re not explosives, we’re not guns. And the effect of having an emotional response to something is not a bad thing. It’s not intrinsically disruptive, even if the emotion is opening, even if the emotion is something that falls outside of your self image, or the way you would like to see yourself. So it also, I think, I think I know where you’re going with this. It feeds into that, as you mentioned before, that pathologizing of everything and flaking of everything. You know, I’m a very sensitive individual with mental health issues. If you talk to me about grade chairs, I’m sat on a great chair, couldn’t have the imagination to think better than else, I become triggered because my father sat on a great chair. I don’t like Daddy, or you know what, you know, he’s just saying, Is this what we are? Yeah, you’re just a vessel that had bad experiences, but into you. And now you’re just a series of buttons that lead directly to bad experiences. And when life happens and touches your buttons, you feel bad. Again, we started by talking about the assumptions of psychology that are poisonous. Well, that’s one of them. How does that happen? How does mainstream psychology through its implicit coordinates, not lead people to the conclusion that there are a vessel full of bad experiences covered in buttons that when life rubs up against them, it touches those buttons, and they feel bad? out? Does it not? It doesn’t teach you know, you’re strong. You’re, you’re a warrior, you’re a philosopher, Kenya philosopher, Queen, you need to strive and to suffer and build muscle, intellectual, physical, emotional muscle, and get out there in the world and bend reality to your Well, that’s not what we’re doing is that that’s not the game we’re in. We don’t want people out there bending reality that well, we want them consuming, paying their taxes and, you know, posting selfies so that we can track their every movement.

 

Bryn Edwards 

deed, indeed. So last question, and I’ve given you before, if there’s one question that you could upload into the collective consciousness, so everyone just thinks about it, and you can’t have Why am I doing this right now? Because that’s what you to check case choice, check it in? And what would it be?

 

Richard Grannon 

What do I need to sacrifice to get where I would like to go? The question is a cheeky double header, it implies that people need to know where they’re trying to get to. And it makes them focus on sacrifice. We are trying to live our lives free from suffering, free from loss, or free from sacrifice. And it’s one of the many things that drives us completely bonkers. Because it does not work like that would be like trying to live in denial of gravity. And then you’d be like, Oh, my knees hurt, my ankles are broken, or I keep bumping myself. The gravity of life is sacrifices is a key component. And so with a loss, you can’t have it all your own way. It doesn’t go on forever. It’s temporal, you will lose, you will be defeated. And if you want something, you have to work for it. And that work involves sacrifice. So I shot a question. What are you prepared to sacrifice in order to get where you want to get to?

 

Bryn Edwards

Absolute gold. Richard, as always, it’s been an absolute pleasure. Yeah. I’m just very grateful for what you do and how you think and being out there. And I’m super grateful to get the opportunity to talk to you on a one to one basis as well. And I know there’s a lot of people in my community here in Western Australia who watch a lot of your work, and they think the same way and I had a lot of messages when they knew I was gonna speak to you again to convey that to you. So thank you so much. And if anybody wants to find Richard, he has his YouTube channel. He has a number of YouTube channels. all worthwhile looking at his technical class on so whether it’s philosophy or whether it’s the mental health fortress where there’s a great little video that probably underpins a lot of what we’ve been talking about towards the end of that. So Richard, thank you very much for your time.

 

Richard Grannon 

Thank you, sir. It’s always a pleasure.

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