Many will tell you the importance of reducing stress, lowering anxiety and calming your nervous system, but how is that journey experienced in real life and what are some of the points along the way as you unwind where you’ve come from?
In this brutally honest conversation, I reflect on my journey over the past 3 years of practising Trauma Release Exercise Tremoring with Richmond Heath, Founder of TRE Australia. Together we explore the changes, impacts and growth over time that this simple but powerful practise has had on my nervous system and way of being in life.
From a start point common to many – a state of high anxiety hyper-vigilant functioning in the world where I genuinely thought “I was ok” – to a place of being where I can begin to meet the complexity of the outside world with an inner existential trust and truly begin to grow.
It’s certainly not all blissful states of ease and grace serenely passing through life because, as you will find out, that concept is a response to an early point on the journey.
Why did I record this conversation?
I am no different to millions / billions of people who heavily wear the anxiety, depression, despair and stress resulting from the everyday living in the current human experience – but does it have to hang so heavily upon us? I believe not, but what is the journey ahead and what can be done about it?
I believe more conversations like this need to happen so that we can chart the journey ahead and normalise it into our collective way of being.
Link to online Richmond’s TRE course: https://www.trecourse.com/
Link to Richmond’s High Anxiety Functioning Video: https://www.treaustralia.com/product/tre-for-high-functioning-anxiety/
Learn TRE Tremoring in Western Australia with Fran Fuller: https://www.treaustralia.com/providers/listing/frances-fuller/
Bryn Edwards [00:01]
Hello, and welcome back to the podcast. It’s been a little while, but I wanted to connect back with a previous guest and do some exploration. And so I have reached out to Richmond Heath Richmond. Welcome back to the podcast. Thanks, Bryn. Great
Richmond Heath [00:22]
to be back in touch with you. Yeah,
Bryn Edwards [00:24]
so those who may or may not remember, Richmond and I spoke before it was episode 103. So it’s a couple of years, pre COVID days, pre COVID days. And Richmond is the godfather of tremoring here in western US in Australia in total. And that’s pretty fair assumption, isn’t it?
It’s a big, it’s a big title to live up to that got
Bryn Edwards [00:51]
Richmond Heath [00:53]
Yeah, puts quite a spiritual, you know, dimension to it as well, which is quite nice.
Bryn Edwards [00:58]
So I guess just for those who may have not encountered tre trauma release exercise tremoring. And this will take a flavour of the conversation today is I’ll have a crack at explaining it. Right. Because Richmond’s had a go at it before that party today is exploring my experience with tremoring over the past three years. And so the way I like to describe it to people, is a couple of ways is one is technically is voluntarily bringing on involuntary tremors into your body, which is technically correct. But the best way I like to describe it is it’s allowing the body to flush out the the tension and the stress that we have picked up and carry over years and years of doing life. And so I often point towards dogs, who most people have had an experience where a dog has been startled, and you look around and they’re still shaking and or it looks like shivering. But it’s and what they’re actively doing is releasing the fight and flight response from their body, and softening their muscles and their fascia and their tendons and all of that. And, and I point out that we as humans work in exactly the same way, but we seldom create the space or have the tools to do that. And so what tremoring is about is, is allowing the body to release that. And I think the most important part in that is allowing the body, it’s not necessarily for me the mind, say doing a thing. It’s allowing the body and I think well, I want to come into that a bit later. So is that fair? Is that fair description?
I think that’s a brilliant description bring you should be teaching it not just doing podcasts about it, maybe we’ll have a chat about that. Like, yeah, and I think it’s a great a great description, and you picked up on some really good things, which is, in theory, we use the term follow the body, which means that, you know, what we’re looking to do is to let the body guide the process, because our human organism has got, you know, millions of years of evolution, in terms of innate knowledge in how to recover from trauma, release stress, optimise its well being you know, create better movement patterns, all the all the different things. So it’s exactly what you’re saying, our job is kind of to get out of the way and let the body lead. It gives give it space to actually recover, because we kind of inhibited in our culture like say, with animal or animals don’t think, always this symptom of shock or anxiety or PTSD, they just tremor. And the same with little kids, you know, they let themselves tremor, but also, they let themselves laugh and cry and move and express fully. So probably the only addition I would have is it’s not always about shaking and tremoring it can be any sort of spontaneous movement that happens, you know, someone cries, their face curls down, and he’s come out or sometimes people lie on the ground and they’re doing tearing, they’re just getting gurgling in their digestive system, you know, it’s like, well, they might do a few fats, I might burp. So it’s just giving the body that space to do whatever it needs to do to sort of unwind itself but also to reorganise itself to a more sort of more happy, healthy, balanced state.
Bryn Edwards [04:25]
And what I want to do today with is if people want to know, your background and your story of how you got into tremoring, they can easily go back to Episode 103. And listen to that. And there’s some great stuff in there. I particularly love the part in your story about when you went on the passionate retreat. You’re supposed to be sitting there being quiet. So your body’s doing this movement, you’re doing handstands and you can’t help it and all of that stuff. And yeah, it’s really cool to listen to, but what I thought would be good today is actually we explored my experience. I’ve been tremoring now for three years. It’s just coming up to three years since I was first introduced to it. And I, one of the ways I describe it now is it’s in my quiver of secret weapons for doing life. This is one of the go to arrows of secret weapons that I have in the quiver. And, and I and that might sound like a big statement. But yeah, for me, it really has it. At some levels, it’s been a cheat to do in life. I, I say that it’s often when I compare myself to others and what’s going on around, and my capacity to be present and be in it. Yeah, but the journey has been not straight forwards. And sometimes there’s a lot of language that’s missing around it. And there’s not that many people to be able to talk to about it, because after a period of times, I’ll explain it for me, it starts off with quite a gross level and then becomes subtle to very sudden super fine. Some of the experiencing that I have now started to become aware of. And so part of what I wanted to do is talk through this with you Richmond who obviously have a wealth of experience of this for a for me to try and make sense of some of my journey. But then also in doing that recording this is is a be an invitation to anybody who’s not done tremoring before to come into it can be anybody who has done through a period of time to actually make sense of the journey that they’re embarking upon.
Yeah, I love the I love the analogy. It’s like a golden arrow, you know, the go to and I totally relate, bring, like for me, up until I learnt tre or came into contact with spontaneous tremoring through the passion was my original experience and interior, he gave me a framework and a model to make sense of it. But up until that point, I didn’t really have any way of releasing tension and pent up energy in myself apart from there all unhealthy ways, you know, so compulsive eating or drinking or whatever, or also have a history of like body focused BFR B’s body focused repetitive behaviours, well pick scheme or, you know, little pixel, that sort of thing. And then the only other one I can’t remember we mentioned this in the other episode was around, you know, sex orgasm without ejaculation was the only thing I could do that was sort of a little bit physically healthier, but you know, very draining and exhausting. So finding that my body had a way that it could release tension, and relax. Beyond how I could do it consciously. That was like, you know, it was like opening the door of the jail selling away all sudden, there was this relief, that was the biggest thing for me, it was about relief, I was like, oh my god, I found a way of finding some relief. That was the beginning. Yeah. And then what I love about what you’re framing is a lot of us come to tra or any sort of modality looking for a life or treatment or a fix or a solution, or we just want to feel calm. And we often experienced that. Because immediately when your nervous system starts to balance, you go back towards homeostasis, you just feel calmer, like sort of instantly. But what you’re talking about what’s really fascinating, and this is what drives me a lot around it, is then we start to recognise that it’s not just a tool to make ourselves feel karma, but it’s actually a process of healing, reorganisation and growth. And what I like to term is like neuro physiological growth and nervous system is actually maturing and becoming more efficient, more organised. So that’s where this journey, it’s not a linear journey. It’s not just like a restorative model, like our medical model says, I’ve got a pain, give me something or do something. So I can keep being the same person, but without that pain. Yeah. And so what the tremoring does is it starts to take us into our authentic self. And a lot of us think, Oh, well, authentic self. That means you know, me when I’m perfectly calm and relaxed and on flow, and I go, well, that’s kind of a theoretical, authentic self. But before that, there’s the authentic self, which for me is like highly frustrated or nervous or anxious or overwhelmed or immobilised, or rigid. And we all want to go from who we are now to who we’d like to be. And we often struggle to go hang on in order to heal, we need to be embodied make that connection and we need to become authentic in our wounds and our reactivity and our suffering and all of that stuff in order to then move through that and you know, that becomes like the transform that or to you know, that becomes the goal that we have to move through. So some people do tre or they Don’t do to avoid Terry and forget Terry, partly because your body’s determining where your lead on this journey, whereas most of the other stuff we do in the world, we consciously choose from our ego or our will, will. And so of course, we only choose what we like and what feels good. Largely. So this is where the body leaves.
Bryn Edwards [10:20]
cognitive framework. Yes. So
all of a sudden, you know, we’re going where my body wants to go here because our organism like organisms have a biological imperative to optimise themselves and their well being. But often our ego or our mind says, but I don’t want to go there, because it’s uncomfortable. That’s why it’s all been in the body. So I’m really excited to be talking about this with you. And yeah, yeah, I’m fascinated to hear for you, like three years is a long, three years is a long period of tremoring. And you’re getting this, you know, you’re getting this experience. So it’s great to hear what you’re experiencing and how you’re making sense of it. Because I can, you know, I can put a neuro scientific bent on it, or I can give you my perspective, but ultimately, and this is one of the real gifts about tre is it’s kind of got a level of neutrality is we use science to explain what we’re doing. And it’s a trauma recovery, Baba, but ultimately, the day, every human on the planet has got this mechanism inside them. So it doesn’t matter what your religion or your culture or your belief system, ultimately, it’s about, how does the person make sense of it and integrate it into their own, you know, belief systems that make sense? And they can, they can go right, this is something that’s a journey worth going on?
Bryn Edwards [11:27]
Yeah, yeah. So it’s probably worth placing me at the start of the journey. Yeah. So the way I was introduced to tremoring, was out of the blue, lovely lady called Fran Fuller, who’s an instructor here in Western Australia, and seeing what I’ve been doing with the podcast and just wanted to invite me along to, to have a four weeks four week training session. And to start with, well, the first thing that hooked me was as soon as somebody says, you want to come on learning journey, I’m in always, because I’m that type of guy. But then she started to explain it to me. And I think there was something even at that cognitive level that hooked me that suddenly went, hang on a minute. Yeah, nervous system down regulate at all. Yes, I’m up for this. But if we just come out of that, at this point, I was thinking about this. Before we had this conversation. So where was I actually at at that point in time? And there’s possibly two ways of looking at that. Where did I think I was? Where do I see that I was now from here three years.
Now that you’re looking back. Isn’t that that’s so significant? Yep.
Bryn Edwards [12:50]
And I thought it was a Yeah, it was a really significant point. Because at the time, I was probably a product of Vastus society, you know, our western industrialised, educated, rational. Society, Was it weird? An acronym COVID. D. And, and so I was very much in my head. You know, I’m a smart guy. I have university degrees. I can read. I read books I can I can hold cognitive models in my head. I was doing a podcast, I was talking to great people. And so I thought was good. Otherwise really good. From a Yeah, I thought I got a handle on life. I understood what life was about. I think already at that point. Interestingly enough, I already understood that that my body needed some thick, because I played rugby. And then I go from rugby into insurance sports in the UK doing triathlons. And then I’d come to Western Australia and I had multiple swims to Rottnest in teams and Duo’s, and then I went and swam solo six years ago, they did another juror, my fiancee, and by the end of that my body was just I was a twin myself bored with swimming, but it was deeper than that. body wasn’t quite to it, I couldn’t get it to do the things that had made me feel really great before you know, I’d achieved these awesome things. And you know, play great rugby gone further than they ever could night cycling, or Berlin or things like this and done these impressive things and take yourself on a journey, but the body was just like, there was a sense inside of it. It’s like in time helper and like, we need, we need something cows. And so already my exercise, and my sort of vitality was starting to just come down and there was not a lot I could do about it. It was not a lot I could do about it. I think at that point, I had found the modus movement. Jim Hearing in, in, in just in my diary, we started to open me up to new ways of looking at my body and patterns of movement and things like that. So it was the start of something that the point when Fran rang me, I was aware of meditation, right. And at the end of most movement, student movement classes, we do stillness, right. And, but it was, it was all still very contained within frameworks that I was cognitively aware of. If I look back now, to where I was, man, I was carrying a fuck tonne of anxiety. And I didn’t know I eyes carried so much anxiety. I was very hyper vigilant. Yeah, a pride. I didn’t, one of the things I began to realise is that, that hyper vigilance was actually helping me to be very dependable and reliable work. Yeah. Which was then being renumerated accordingly. And so some of the outside indicators, were giving me feedback on things that weren’t necessarily healthy. But were being rewarded as such. I the workplace, you know, I was very fastidious and always made sure, you know, things are on time and this that the other than that, there will be an extra level of hyper vigilance to it. And, you know, there were several other things that were there in the background. I mean, I’d had, I was halfway through a very long journey through the Family Court of Western Australia, which, yeah, is just an atrocious journey to go through. And I can understand why people end up doing some very strange and wonky things. I don’t, I don’t condone it. But I can understand how people get to the point of doing some very strange things. And we we’ve had recently with double murder suicide of a child who killed his kids, when you peel it back further, you see that he was in a family court system for a couple of years. And trying to rectify that, I think I was rebuilding my, I was dealing with my own codependency. And my previous relationship that led me into that family court system was very much rooted with that sort of domineering Cluster B, personality trait which had attracted into my life through my own codependency. And like yourself, I’ve got 11 years experience in the English boys boarding school, which trains you up for all sorts of things. And, and, you know, there was a lot of, obviously, there’s a lot of trauma around that. And I’ll probably come back to that, particularly the boarding school later on, so that there were those bigger things. And just at that point in time, I couldn’t see the wood for the trees. I thought cognitively, everything was fine. But the anxiety levels were just enormous. You know, it’s like carrying the backache and stuff that you don’t realise because it’s just feather by feather by feather by feather.
That’s right, and so that, when you say all those things, bring it, there’s a few things that that stick out. And the big one is we say we have that same on carrying this anxiety or on carrying this trauma. And the question is, how do we carry it? Is it just thoughts? Is it just behaviours? No, we carry it, we literally carry it in the physiology of our body. And that’s why you know, all the sort of trauma, groundbreaking trauma books in the last few years are all about the body and the body keeps the school the body bears the burden. The body remembers. So, you know, that’s one element. And then what I loved about what you said is going at the time, I thought I was gone, okay? And in a way you were, it’s like, you’ve got a good friend and mentor, Andrew cram. And he says, you know, like, it’s like, you build a house and you’ve built it a certain way. And it works, you know, it functions it might not be the most optimal or that but it’s working. So a lot of people like well, if I want to build a double storey house that’s bigger and better, I might have to rip stuff down and redo the foundations because I need to get a stronger foundation in order to hold another, you know, another, another law a better model or a bigger data model. So, what I love about what you’re saying there is it’s not until you look back, and you can go now that I look back, I can realise that actually, I wasn’t doing okay. Because the parts that were not okay, were in my body below the level of my conscious awareness. I mean, all of us sitting here we’ve all got tension and bracing in our bodies right here right now. No matter how good we feel but we’re not yet aware of. And so again, this is to make it a practical, practical level. One of the things I’ve really has developed strongly for my last three years during theory is, you know, we get people to tremor, they start tremoring. And then I’ll say to them, okay, notice is there anywhere in your body that is bracing and holding and resisting against the tremors and letting go. Now some people go, Yeah, I can feel that my breaths holding my shoulders are holding. So I say great. If that’s holding, that’s your body letting you know that this is too intense. Literally, it means in tension, there’s tension here, yeah, my legs are flapping around. And that’s releasing, but part of me is not releasing. So say, great, you know, stopping spider legs and have a break, then you’ve got other people who don’t know, I don’t notice anywhere that my body’s tense or bracing. And anyone who’s experienced that looking at the body, you’ll go well, you can see where it’s holding here. And so we say, Great. stop and take a little break, take a timeout, stop the tremors. And now that you’ve stopped, notice, if anything, lets go and relaxes. So what often happens for those people is they take a big breath in, or their body takes a breath, they’re not doing it consciously, their body takes a breath and the chest relaxes, or their arms relax or their shoulder and they go, Can you feel that relief? And they’re like, oh, yeah, I felt that soften them you say? That’s right. So what that was showing us. And again, this is the metaphor of in the body’s like a little microcosm for life, is it’s only often until we relax and find relief in the body. And we experience that that then we can say, Okay, if that part of your body relax, while you’re tremoring, that meant while you were travelling on the floor, it was holding, but you weren’t yet aware of it. Yeah, so people start to on a practical level, go, okay, I get this concept, I often don’t realise how tense I am, until I get a moment of relief. And then that helps me recognise that before. I didn’t know because this is the magic is when it comes to stress and trauma. You know, it’s our body that withdraws awareness from our conscious mind, it’s not the other way around, it’s not because we go, I’m going to consciously ignore my shoulder or my lower back, or my vertebrae, eight to 77789, or whatever. It’s not a cognitive process, you know, when trauma happens, it’s an evolutionary process in the nervous system to keep it really simple as more complex and better and broader than that. But that’s one of the things so in terms of our embodiment, and how connected we are to our body, that is in a large part determined by our body in terms of when it’s allowing us to become back aware of these parts of the frozen contained unresolved because they were too, too overwhelming for our psyche, or
ego to integrate them and engage with them at the time. So you know, sort of saying I’m loving this analogy is saying, It’s not until I look back that I realised where I where I was, because I wasn’t aware of what was happening on my body. The beauty of that, then, of course, is to continually open to ourselves to say, so right now, I feel heaps better than I was yesterday, I know that in my body below the level of what my cognitions only aware of, on an 81% of my subconscious, physiologic that my body is aware of itself. And then there’s a bigger picture. So it’s a continual calling back to chest, let’s keep diving into the body, which is really no more than saying the opposite. And always, like, let’s just give the body time and space. Because 99% of our life, we’re doing it with our cognition and our ego and our will. And that’s all that’s all great. So we’re just saying, let’s try and get some balance and get out of the way, let the body unwind itself, but also show us where we need to go in order to grow.
Bryn Edwards [23:43]
Mm hmm. Absolutely. And I think it’s that recognition of that point that, if that’s where I was, then I can now see it with great clarity. Then this is Britain in 1224 months time, yeah, I am now with more clarity than I can right now.
Yes, and that. And that, for me is one of the most exciting things because for me with Terry, people come they go off, I just want to get rid of this, I want to get rid of that I want to get rid of the past. Now, when it was originally called theory for trauma release exercises. That’s where David bacilli was working in trauma zones, you know, war zones and natural disasters. So people were going on trying to recover from this immediate recent incident. So that’s why we want to want to let go of the past. But at the same time to keep it in balance. There’s excitement about Hang on. So it’s not just about letting go of the past. It’s about growing into the future. Because what a lot of people don’t know is that when we are in utero, so when we’re babies in utero, the way that our nervous system and eventually our cognition in our brain, the way that it integrates the body in the brain is through spontaneous shaking and tremoring in utero. Now that’s got nothing to do with letting go of the past, that’s a process of the art, the nervous system and the organism, organising itself, deepening in its connections to itself, so that we can become more organizationally, you know, efficient and involved. So the magic for me is when people don’t just go on, I know how to this helped me let go the past that like you’re saying you’re going hang on this process is helping me move into the future. Yes. And once there’s a sense of going, Okay, this is helping me grow and evolve and become more of who I am. Even that might be a difficult journey at times. Once you know, that’s the direction that it’s taking you, then it’s inevitable that you just keep gonna keep using it. And it’s inevitable that you can’t do anything else apart from to heal and grow and mature again, through not around not over not avoiding Drew, but through the physiology of the body. So at the end of the day, our physiology becomes more grounded, more centred, more relaxed. And on that journey, we often become more aware of Helen grounded and relaxed and it’s, it’s like yin and yang, we’re always parts of us are more safe parts of us are more unsafe parts of a small brand, and parts are still yet to be granted. And it’s the body that’s leading that journey. And we come along with it. Now, everything we do. Now, other cognitive techniques, mindfulness, talk, therapy, psychotherapy, exercise, those are all wonderful parts of the journey. And yet, there’s this bottom up element that when we let the body lead it, it’s got an innate biological imperative to evolve and become more efficient to become less tends to become, you know, the optimist get into the optimum state it can. So anyway, I’m ranting a bit, but what I’m trying to say the thing that excites me right for him, and what I love talking to you about is when people get the direction this is taking us Yes, not yes, what was the effect, I got rid of something I didn’t want. But going this is a process, which is helping me mature, grow and evolve, which means it’s a process helping you to grow and evolve, which means if more people are using it, and letting their body it’s a process of allowing our bodies to help us all grow, mature, heal and evolve. And that becomes an incredibly inspiring and exciting concept when you realise that this is happening on a global level. And it’s and it’s spreading in the same way that is your individual body. But the more you let it organise itself or tremor, you see that it’s getting more efficient, more relaxed, more organised, more connected. On a global level, the same thing is happening as you know, humans, through through theory and other other spontaneous movement practices, but there is a again, it’s like a tremor in the in the human culture. Where as this spreads organically bottom up from the grassroots, as a collective, it’s also helping us to mature and evolve. And all I do want to say here really clearly is from a Western perspective, because there are a lot of indigenous cultures that you know, from a Western perspective they are they haven’t got the same development that but actually in terms of maturing human beings and growing and evolving in maturity and physiological maturity, they’re often miles and miles ahead. So I’m talking from, you know, my own sort of Western white male perspective, there’s a huge again, this is the this is what really inspires me is about not so much about how benefits may or that that’s important, but the potential for or not even the potential the direction, then this tremoring process, whether invoked through tra or psyche Jitsu, or cancer, John Doe, or shaking medicine or bioenergetics. It’s an organic arising out of our bodies, which is helping to grow and evolve. It’s, it’s incredibly profound to get a sense of that direction, like you’re saying, so you know, it’s like, you can see that I am becoming a bit of bring in the future. And it’s just going to keep going. So let’s get on board and make that as soon as possible.
Bryn Edwards [29:02]
So some of the some of the immediate experiences that had right in that four week course, were actually experiences of a lot of what you’ve just mentioned, the very first, the first week that we went to, and my fiancee Lucy came with me as well was just starting to tremor in the hips, and then all of a sudden, there was just something when and let me the most interesting thing about that was I was like whoa, some something’s just gone on and I can’t and I got this real startled look on my face. But not only that occur, but Lucy was looking at me it’s just when I just felt you and she was like a metre and a half away. And she was just like, I just found you. And then when we got in the car afterwards We both looked at each other and just floods of tears for no reason than we could explain. And then afterwards the two is why. So awesome. Yeah, there were no words, there was no pointed any words at that point. And that’s one of the things I’ve tried to explain to people who are interested in is, there’s no point in any words, because you have to just go experience it. So at that point, to be honest, when I was studying was definitely there, I was experientially hooked. And I was like, right, I’m giving this a crack. The second thing that happened was, I think it was in the third or the fourth of the week that I left one of the last one of the the courses, the the training sessions, and I felt really lighten. Yeah, just a bit. Were just a bit lower energy than when I’d gone in. Yeah. And it was really freaky. And and so I doing Fran up and it’s a you know, it was awesome week one, you know, I got massive release crying in the car. And they say, this way. I’m like, What’s the show? And, and one of the things she explained to me was, was there was many people that were in the, in that course. And I turned up with some very heavy in present trauma, and much of which, you know, we’re not talking about because we don’t have to talk about so we don’t have to re traumatise ourselves. And in in in the process of has been in a room and begins Trevor and release. There were some who were possibly, I don’t know how they would describe I don’t want to say like high vibration or any wacky shit like that. sound of my buddy, South Fremantle spiritual. But there was sort of as a result of in a lighter place in our, you know,
our bodies moving easier. Yep. Yeah.
Bryn Edwards [32:13]
And there were those that weren’t. And so there was almost like this, this business, which is pretty which at the start with, I felt as me coming down. But front, it explained to me that a lot of other people had left it in quite brilliant like that. So it was this levelling out. So I got this real experiential experience of not just with one on one Lucy feeling, yeah, my release, but then me feeling the whole group. Yeah, that that was hugely profound, because although I didn’t enjoy that experience, that was actually going to be the doorway into quite a lot of stuff that was about to happen. Yeah, then made me start to think well, I you know, without seeming egotistical, if I’ve been here, and these people have been there, and we’ve done this, this is, yeah, okay, I’ve calmed down a little bit. But collectively, we’re all net positive. For some of the work that I’ve been doing already, yeah. Yeah, that got me thinking about how groups are communicating with one another beyond just talking and from nervous system point of view.
Totally. And so yeah, I mean, we still go oh, is it all woowoo and it’s all energetic and all that sort of stuff. But if you look at the neuroscience of collective flow states where, you know, how do how do organisms resonate together?
You know, that’s exact you’re having an experience of going oh, okay, I can empathise and connect and resonate with a group of people. And anyone who’s ever played a team sport, or you know, jazz musicians, they get in the groove or you know, in the pocket, or you’re in the zone, and you can have that experience on your own. But when you have it in a group, it’s a bit like singing in a group. You know, if you sing on your own sounds great. And singing in a choir, all of a sudden, you can create resonance and harmonies that you can’t create singularly Yeah. And so just yesterday, bring light. I did a session with some elite volleyball is that a centre of excellence in Melbourne that I’ve been working with, on and off in their programme for five years. And this was amazing. So we were on we couldn’t get a room to do that session in so we were on the we’re on a on the volleyball court or a basketball court and next door was an elite female basketball team who are training now in an in a setting like that, you know, you’ve got all the squeaks of the bloody runners on the thing. It’s high pitch you got people squealing and shouting what it is a pretty intensive environment. So we did this session with these guys as about, I don’t know 18 or something and some of them had done it last year with me and they were using the tremoring and a lot of them when you and I were having amazing releases and you know all my body feels a bit more relaxed, a bit more relaxed. But the thing that stands out for me is when they all got back out, or even when that tremoring I kept saying the one of the other coaches, and I’m saying, Are you noticing how peaceful and calm all these people are. And this this court is there’s a massive, crazy game going on just 10 metres away. And they’re all chilled out and relaxed. And then at the end, they got up. And they were standing around, and all I could describe it was like the, you know, again, its dominance. And we were at the energy in the room, but it was like, there was just this softness, and this peacefulness, and they’re all standing there. And the coach afterwards, I said, you know, did you notice that that’s this group flow, where people start to resonate, we come out about the fences were more open and connected. And he said, Oh, yeah, that was amazing. He said, those guys can’t normally stand there and concentrate like that I knew something, you know, I knew what was happening, because that really that’d be fidgeting, or that that’d be distracted. And so then from that place, and I’m going back in a couple of weeks, and I can’t wait, because I said, Well, next time, what we’re going to do is they’re going to play a scratch match. And they’ll divide into two half teams and say, we’re going to get the two teams to tremor separately at either ends of the court. So that they haven’t experienced of right now, when you get up off the floor, Can you feel how more open and calm and engaged and it’s not a conscious process, it’s not saying I’m paying more cognitive attention on being more mindful of my teammates, it’s that our nervous systems begin for one of a better word, our organisms, our bodies, start to sense on that subconscious level and feel that collective flow. And again, for people working in teams, whether it’s at work, or schools, you know, if you can get teachers in schools tremoring together, and students, you know, there becomes this collective collective energy, there’s just so much great potential. And of course, it has much bigger impacts than just thinking, Oh, okay, this is good for me, I’m an individual, again, that very western individualistic, and I want to feel good, this is good yet, well, if the group helps me great, but it helps us to, to get that sense that we often miss in the West that hang on, we are part of a bigger community. And how we show up in that community has an impact on others society. But together, when we’re moving into, you know, healing and working, connecting together, we can achieve more and be happier and healthier. And again, same as in the physical body, we can be more efficient and effective and healed and mature and evolved as a community, or as a corporation, or as a culture or as in, you know, as a global human culture where we’re gradually learning, how do we all get along, in the same way that, you know, my livers got to work out how it relates to my lungs, and my lungs got to relate to how it relates to my left ear. And, you know, as our organism grows in utero, it’s forming these connections and relationships that become more healthy and functional. And again, sort of, you know, a global level, there’s the group flow, where you’re saying, Hey, I’m feeling that individual group in that room. And again, you know, if we keep sort of taking out on a fractal level, that is, you know, what I’m so excited about and so passionate about and dedicated to on a global level, because I see the exact same process happening as more people are allowing this impulse to arise and more organisations and more countries, that in the same way that our body has the same pattern of trying to optimise its well being, you know, the human culture has that as well as organismic level as long as we surrender and allow us cells to get into it. Now, again, a lot of traditional cultures would be sitting there going, Duh, of course, this is what we’ve been trying to tell you for 20 years, or 200 years, I should say.
And so, but you know, but again, this this, this sort of expanding concentric circles again, yeah. Right. And now we’re a global culture, how do we actually integrate? So you know, again, this is a, it’s such a, it’s just an amazing impulse for individual wellbeing, but also for, you know, collective harmony, and, you know, you connect harmony and joy, you know, like, not just going here, we’re getting along, we’re not fighting, but actually where we’re feeling more alive. So kind of, I’m interested in, when you had that moment with Lucy, where you’re like, for something to change, something’s left or more there. You know, what does that what does that mean for you, your life, your partner, your relationship, like, what does having what does that mean for you?
Bryn Edwards [39:25]
Yeah, I mean, it was pretty profound and pretty, it was really quite intimate as well. I guess. At that point in time, it and this is the thing, you know, on one level, and you know, here we are two of us talking about all this, but it is actually getting in and practising and doing and experiencing. And that that means you then build this experiential knowledge which is No, I don’t try and write in a book and read it. But that doesn’t mean, you’ve done it.
You understand it again, you understand it cognitively. You’re
Bryn Edwards [40:11]
trying to make sense with it. But yeah, I mean, quite quickly after the course, well, like I said, I was experientially hooked. And not long after the end of the class, after the end of the four week course, I actually sat down one day very quietly, and made a deal with my body. And I just basically said, right where you need to do, we’re going to do, and I recognise now that you need to do what you need to do. And so we’re going to go on this journey. And that was quite a roller coaster of decision to well, acknowledgement, or whatever to do to mate with my body, because over the next, you know, three to four to five to six weeks, I’d wake up in the middle of night, and that chest would be doing stuff. And it was always like, my body would be saying to me, Well, you said, this is what we’re going to do. So that’s what we’re going to do. And so it was really quite intense. But one of the things I started to notice quite quickly was was two things. One was that when I was getting, like jacked up from a particular experience, you know, like, when you have a confrontation or something like that, isn’t it wind you up or something like that, I had a tool that I could immediately go to, to try and down regulate. So this in the moment really good, yeah, fine. But then there was also this progressive work of doing it, even when you haven’t just encountered an experience that’s jacked to up. And, and the way I was looking at it was you, I was down regulating the sort of default level that my nervous system was operating that it was coming down, little bit by little bit by little bit by little bit. And that wasn’t happening overnight. But it was certainly a little bit by a little bit, and then all of a sudden, I could feel my way into particularly in the workplace, why people were making certain decisions. And the best way to explain this is, you know, I can give you the example of a little child goes up the climbing frame, to, you know, and goes that bit higher, that then triggers the mother’s nervous system. So what does the mother do tells the child to come down. Now, if we look at the dynamics of that interaction, what she’s actually done is she’s forced other people and the outside world to change to assuage her nervous system, rather than her have a chat with herself, and be in a nervous system, and do something to down regulate that. So at that point, in time dependent, what what came across to me was a nervous system had had then taken over her decision making process. So she was now making a decision to down regulate her own nervous system. By controlling the outside environment, right? You now take that the dynamics of those things that I’ve just felt, I explained, but I was beginning to feel. I’m in the workplace, and people are asking me to do certain things. And I’m sitting there, right? Can you explain why? And he goes, Well, we need to mitigate that risk. And I’m like, Well, no, because I could feel that when you when I was being told we need to mitigate that risk, it’s what we’re actually saying is we need to feel less anxious and feel a whole lot better about this. So we need you brilliant to go and do this certain action. Now, that if I’m going to be blunt, is not a good deployment of time, money and resources to get people to do stuff, because people that have slightly more leadership role can’t handle their nervous system. Or the level is firing up and and so they’re being captured by their nervous system, and they’re not still in a place that’s open to possibility and probability and allowing solutions to emerge. And I started to feel my way into this while I was at work and it actually made me quite unpopular because I refused to do a number of things. And I was in danger of getting myself sacked at one point. But it was like well, if I just go and do this, then I’m I’m feeling the fire of this behaviour, which is you need to move the blocks around in the outside world to make you feel better inside. Yeah. And and, you know, it was so difficult because I could feel it. I was just about articulate it. But I wasn’t in a place where I could properly hold my ground articulate and what have you. But it knew that I had to go with this experience. So that got me in a bit of trouble where I’m saying, I’m still gonna do that. Yeah. Why is it because you know, it’s not good. It’s over deployed at the time, money resources, why’d you say that because we’re just mitigating. But I couldn’t properly and if I tried to go into explaining that was because you nervous system jacked up and stuff like that, they’re gonna look at me and go, he’s being a fucking weirdo now. So, so it really wasn’t, once I embarked on the journey, it was actually quite difficult to start with, because now all of a sudden, I’m not just feeling me, I’m feeling other people, where decisions are coming from, where demands upon them are coming from. And, and that was really quite taxing. Because at the same time, I was going deeper and deeper and deeper into myself. And at the same time, I was having experiences whereby I could, I could tremor, I know it’s still quite a gross level of movement, and I could tremor and lie on the carpet in the front room here and a tremor for like 1015 minutes. And then all of a sudden, there would be this calmness, and there would just be this beautiful serene calmness, which I don’t know that the closest thing you can explain to is, you know, that post-coital You know, and I just line there and like nothing was going on in the body was just calm. And then outside, I would hear something like it, like it, like a door close or something like that. And I could feel what I refer to as micro traumas of just sound of life. Right? And, and I could feel that as like, oh my god, this shits going on all the time in my body, these little micro traumas of being in life, you know, sound and vibration, and, and cars and driving and things of these nature are causing me these, what felt like micro traumas at the time. So once I got to that sort of more subtle level, and I’m feeling these things coming in, that that perception was quite taxing, let alone having to deal with the outside world that I was then beginning to fail. And it meant meant that for a period of time, I just, I was like, I think to retreat away from all of this. But at the same at the same time, there was never a point where I thought I need to stop trying to back off this because there was something that was still taking me into this and then knew that it was going somewhere. And I think after what what became super interesting was after a year of tremoring I just I rang Fran up and said can we have a travel check in please? It seemed like a clever thing to do. I think I’d phoned you up once. That was funny. The first time I’d tremadog My front and not on the back and then the next thing I was always like, dry humping the ground and had to phone you up and go Yeah, did you ever get like these funky hot sexy feelings while you do this? Remember you guys are stuffy and that was hilarious. But then I had a check in with with with Fran and what we realised was I was almost coming to that I was doing these massive gross movements in my body if you saw they are you thought I’d got you I was on rave drugs or something. And what she started to point me towards was slightly more subtle tremor in smaller areas of my body. And so then all of a sudden that that was particularly interest because now was going into more fine parts was like a tremor outside shell. And now we were going into more of the finer muscles. And that that became amazing as well at me I remember not long after that driving to work one day and I had to pull over in the car. And because by this point, you know fulfil the tremor coming on as long as it’s safe, I’ll let it go. You know, there’s no point pushing it away. I’d made that deal with my body a year before like, when we need to do stuff, we’re going to do stuff and, and irrespective of where we are, you know can always find a place to go and train with a toilet or whatever was driving along and all of a sudden, I had to pull over the car because my whole face just wanted to screw up and I couldn’t actually open my And that was followed by a jaw tremor a couple of days later. And those again felt, you know, afterwards, I was left in this almost crying state because it released stuff. It’s such a subtle level. I mean, you know, the muscles around the face are really subtle. But you know, they’re always on, they’re always moving. And so it was just scrunched up. And yeah, after those, again, I was just floods of tears, tears have been a frequent thing. And I quite enjoy crying uncontrollably sobbing some days. And yeah, but it was becoming more and more and more subtle. As this was happening, I was starting to becoming more and more subtle in the perception of the outside world, which, to be honest, again, was taking another level of existential load, it was becoming harder times, as I say, there were moments when, like I said, I just want to retreat from the outside world, I don’t want to deal with you all. You’re all just too taxing on me and my entity in my body, I feel how you know. And it was at that point I can, I can understand why why people just want to retreat and go on like a four week retreat to a Buddhist monastery where you don’t talk about anything, you don’t deal with anybody. You shut the outside world out. But one of the one another experience that started to happen, was I think it was right at the start of 2020. This is just pre COVID. Parents were over and I was at the business, I was getting towards the business end of dealing with the family court and my former partner and stuff like that, and we’re supposed to go to court into court the next day, there’s gonna be a bit of a showdown etc, etc. And so, you know, that, that brings with a huge level of anxiety. And so I can’t remember where it occurred. But something had happened to receive a letter from their lawyer and data directly. It’s all one can around, and this that the other and my mom and dad were over from England and dad was trying to be supportive and etc. And I was at their place and this thing had happened. And then just the impact of it all hit me. And you know, I lost my shed. I was I was angry, I was shouty. I was teary, I was this, that and the other. And at that point, that’s where, you know, the old man wanted to give me the old you know, Winston Churchill cometh the hour cometh the man, come on, let’s keep it together type thing. And that’s where I had to go. And I remember it clay, I just went know that this. I don’t do compartmentalization anymore. And this is me, this is like, I will lose my shit right now. But my shit will come back. As soon as this has been purged, and I allowed myself to feel the anxiety, the anger and everything that was occurring in that moment. And I knew that that’s what I had to do. Because then I could let that go. And then once that had gone, and it took half an hour or so. And I was then back into a place where I was met, were able to make proactive decisions and open up to possibility and probability. And I’d noticed particularly in the in the year before that, that more and more I was starting to become quite cleanly angry. Instead of this dull munted tion male anger thing that we do is I used to run on the I used to run on the code that men plus anger equals destruction equals violence equals harm and hurt for others. And yeah, so I used to try and avoid it. And I would be that more that sort of simmering anger. Are you angry? No, no, no, you know, and then you’d blow your lid every now and again. And then you feel a bit better and you know, to say sorry to a lot of people. Whereas in this, I was finding that leading up to this, I was finding myself just getting cleanly angry. If somebody transcended my board boundaries, they probably knew about it really quickly. But at the same time, they did know about it, and I would come back down again quite quickly, and we can have that dialogue and people knew where they stood with me a lot more, which made life way more straightforward. And, and for me, it was means I wasn’t carried around This continually growing simmering load of anger that has not been dealt with. So I had this chord experience, I stood down for parents and when that I heard do compartmentalization anymore. Just leave me to feel this. And I said in a minute, not long, I’ll be good as gold. And lo and behold, I was and last, I looked at the old man, and when she learned a lot from bread, but that is that was a real, that was a real in life’s crucible. All of a sudden, I started to feel something different occurring, which was, I am actually in it. And I am actually feeling things all the time. And in that moment, I had this incredible sense of existential trust in myself, that it was okay to lose my shit. Because the essence of me wasn’t going to be lost. And that my shit as it were, would come back to me.
Can I Can I just like, I just have to jump in here. What you just said was existential, existential trust? Is that a term you’ve heard before? You’ve read before? You just said that now?
Bryn Edwards [56:18]
No, no, no, I talk about existential trust. And as a result of tremoring, and other things, as well, that I put in terms of a central thing, I feel that I can carry a greater existential load.
So cuz I just want to I mean, again, like, um, you know, you’ve got all these wonderful experiences and stories, but for me when you said that, it’s not, it’s not a term I’ve heard before, it’s not a concept. I’ve heard anyone talk about what I know everything about, you know, existential angst, or, you know, uncertainty or whatever, you know, that deep core. It’s such a, such a solid anchoring thing. You know, if you were to say to people, what would it be like, if at the core of your being you had existence exists, I can’t say the word but you know, explanation of trust, rather than living in a permanent state of existential fear and anxiety or anger or overwhelm like that. And so again, for me, you know, I hear your journey, it’s like, we get these glimpses, or these brief experiences of what does it feel like when I’m really just in the moment, you know, I’m not trying to, I’m not reacting to the past that’s playing out through my body, even though it’s not happening now. It’s, I’m not so focused on trying to get to the future. So it’s better than with the magics in the moment. And so again, so for me that the Okay, I’ll just, if I can share my experience.
My model of that I’ve actually got a I did a drawing and upon.
So I remember doing a tremor with just doing with David Buss, Sally, but one of the times when he’d come out, and for years, you’d be trying to work on me to get my body to loosen up and get, you know, because I tend to have a very rigid body and very held. When my mind’s in the way, when I did the passion, I took my mind out, my body was infinitely extremely extraordinary. But anyway, so my whole organism, he spent years trying to jump on me and push and prod. And at the end, I remember one days half laughing, he said, you just need to smoke some dope, because I can’t do anything that make your body well, you know, relax. And it was more about my mind and that presence, but I remember one time he was, I think I was lying maybe on my chest, and he was pushing on the back. And he was trying to get my back to soften. And he started pushing it on my back. And I was like, No, David, David, that’s too hard. I can feel my chest bracing against, you’re pushing in. And I remember saying, I said, David, you could drive a car over that chest, it’s I can feel it’s not going to let go, you’re not going to be able to push it down. I said, just make your hand a bit lighter. And so I took a bit of pressure off and I was like, I felt myself soften. They said no, no, take less pressure. So I ended up just having his hand resting there. So there’s no trying to push in or trying or it was just a tuning and meeting my body. And as soon as that happened, I just felt myself just start to soften and warmth. And my body really, it was just relaxing, wasn’t shaking, wasn’t tremoring it was just melting for one of a better word. And then at that time, so I had this experience of all I can say is have this experience of feeling the ground beneath my feet or the ground inside me. So at that time, I’d been involved in a men’s, the managing men’s gathering on a committee. And our theme that year was into the deep. And so we’d had this analogy that we kept talking about in scuba diving. It’s like, you know, when you dive down really deep, you have to decompress on the way back up. You know, like you have to stop at five metres and let the oxygen all reorganised. So there’s this very strong sort of narrative Story of the sense of when we dive into the deep like scuba diving, we have to really take our time to come back out. And it’s dangerous. And you know what, if you dive into the deep and don’t come back out, you’re gonna die. Like that’s the scuba sort of water. And so my whole life had this feeling of going, if I stood on the edge of the top of the way out of the water on the edge of the ocean, and if the oceans my body, let’s just use it that if I stayed in my head, and I stayed out of my body, and I live like that, I could avoid the ocean, I could avoid all the turbulence and all the waves and getting thrashed around. And so I could stay, you know, we could stay out of our body just disconnected this dorsal vagal disconnected state. So we live in our heads, my body’s carrying building the bird or until it can’t keep going. So like yours got to a point of going, I can’t keep living like this, I can’t do the things that used to make me happy because they don’t make me happy, and I physically can’t do them anymore, my body’s breaking down. So then there’s a lot of experiences, okay, let’s dive into the body, this is where we’re going. But when we dive into the depths, there’s currents and it’s bloody murky. And you get sometimes it’s a beautiful, blissful floating day, but other days, you’re getting smashed against the rocks. And so you’ve got to get back out, you’ve got to come back out of the body, and you pour too much theory too much into my body, let’s jump back out, calm down, regulate, take control into all those sorts of things. And in that might, so that was the analogy, it’s like, you know, we go into the body, but it can be too much and too far jump back out, you know, come back out of the body. And when I was long on that floor, I had the image of being just surrendering. And it was like a visual, you know, visual image came to mind. And it was like I was drifting further and further down into the bottom. And getting darker, there’s less light there. It’s murkier, it’s dangerous, it’s dangerous. And then all of a sudden, Pops, my feet have landed on the bottom of the ocean.
And in that moment, I was like, Oh, my God, this was really calm and solid down here. Yes, further in my body deeper into my body, there was actually a place that I could connect with now I’d had the experience of going, I can trust my body deeper into my body, because there’s this solidity underneath all that turbulence. And then the analogy started to change me again, this is just making an analogy making sense. Instead of being someone living on the surface going by diving in my body that I have to get back out because it’s overwhelming. In those moments, I had this experience are going well, I’m on the bottom of the ocean safe, some safe, calm, relaxed, and then every so often, I jump upwards into the water and get thrashed around in my body, knowing that when I fully surrendered to it, I sink back down. And there’s some earth underneath me as well. So, again, that was just for me, that was a profound shift, you know, I’ve got a painting that I did of it, I’ve got a poem music about it. Because in that moment, that was the moment for me where consciously, I had this connection to go well, deeper inside my body. You know, Body Trust, existential trust, if I go far enough in and I let myself connecting there, it’s all okay. Yeah. And that was a little glimpse, then I don’t live like that all the time, don’t, you know, I will go. And once you get that glimpse, then we have to go back to the reality of making that real, not just in my mind, knowing that everything’s gonna be okay. But in my physiology, and my body. So that’s what when you share that story, there’s that moment of recognising, and this is what you know, it’s like, I’ve never had that term for that I talk about, you know, finding the ground, if Earth beneath my feet or the safety within me, David bacilli used to say, you know, traumas in the body year but so safety further underneath that, yes, organism knows it’s safe if we right here unless we’re under attack. But so when you said that term, you know, excellent existential trust. Yes. For me, that’s like a beautiful, you know, concept or thing of going somewhere at the core of my brain, there’s a connection to this sense of trust. And that doesn’t mean that doesn’t mean I’m not going to die. Doesn’t mean that things aren’t going to hurt it doesn’t mean that I’m not go through the you know, the night and day and the light and dark of all that sort of stuff. But somewhere inside my organism knows that to be true. Not just, I know it conceptually. It’s, it feels in it. So when the shit hits the fan and the stuff comes up in my mind, and my ego is going this is bullshit. I hate this. I’m in the wrong place. This shouldn’t be happening. And sure we still need to make decisions in life but there’s a deeper part of me that is just always there going. Okay, it’s okay. Can it’s alright, it’s alright. I know you don’t like it. I know you don’t understand it. It’s all moving in the right direction and then you get through that next wave you settle down you go oh, I hated that. I wish that never have never had to happen. But you know what? I feel a bit more time a bit more relaxed, a bit more grounded, a bit more open, a bit more real, a bit more present, a bit more creative, a bit more alive, a bit more supportive, a bit more compassionate, a little bit more empathy. And then of course the next thing happens I’m like, Oh my God, who was I kidding thinking that I was actually camera like granted, because my next trigger in my physiology gets touched the next button that’s holding the body. But the kit and this comes back to you, the original thing we’re talking about is, when we get that sense of the direction, it’s like that the rivers flowing us in, you got this has taken us in the right direction, it just makes it that little bit easier to surrender and float a little bit more trying to push the river or swim against the river or change the direction of the current.
Bryn Edwards [1:05:24]
I never said I never said because from that. And yeah, it wasn’t wasn’t long afterwards that we started to have zoning 2020 rule COVID times and you know, there’s, that in and of itself has been a journey. And I think one of the things that I have found is that, you know, we use, some people refer to depression is the black dog. And the way I see it now is most people will lock the door as tight as they can from the black dog. And all that’s going to happen is the black dog is going to fuck off get all these meds. Contrast most that door that is trying to fortify more, you’re gonna get more mates, right? And so now it’s a matter of the door’s always open. The door is always open for the black dog to come. And he comes he spent some times and I learned something from it. And there’s a reason and then I leave. And then he started he leaves. And in that time, you know, I think I think most people if we’re really honest, have had suicidal thoughts, right? It’s and that in and of itself can be very, very scary because all of a sudden, this this goes through his mind involves might involves. And that would be I’ll be clear as day one involves taking the straps out of the back of my Hilux and hanging myself from a tree, right. And there’s been magnets where the crucible of life has got to that point, the doors that have been decided upon. And that has happened, you know, in the last 1218 months as well. And the thing is, though now is because I have this existential trust, that this is a passing thing. That I can feel anxious, that I can be depressed at times that I can have fleeting suicidal thoughts, that it will be alright because I’m here now as you said, that doesn’t It doesn’t give me carte blanche to escape the universal truths that the fact that bad things could happen to me one day I will die, the sun goes down at the end of the day. There truths there the truths of nature, and and try as much as you like You won’t escape those, how there’s all the other stuff and that we encounter. And you know, sometimes we do have these responses to that. And I just find today a lot of our response to mental and emotional health challenges is is more what I refer to as been erotic and erotic meaning that you know, we all suffer but to avoid all suffering or cost that is where neurosis comes from. That’s where we get the word erotic. And, you know, I used to think of resilience being the shield that I would have which means I can take as many barbs and arrows now as I was still fucking hard. And but now it’s resilience is is that existential trust. And interestingly on an on a subsequent check in with Fran, and a year later, so as the second check in, actually do another one. So and we started to talk about the fact that the more watery and a lot of my tremoring was now lying on the side and my back doing this and that and I sort of resonated with that because it’s not that I have no form but underneath it has nothing to do it’s it’s throughout it or more fluid or slow. But it’s true help me there is greater existential trust existential mode. And as a result of that, and being able to see deeper into my own mental and emotional health responses, I can now say that most of them are appropriate. Most of them are 100% appropriate to the world. We live in that have the don’t necessarily have life as a central organising principle in the way that we do things as a society. And so like a canary bird in the mineshaft, I’m going to feel depressed, I’m going to feel anxious, I’m going to feel like life’s not worth much at times. Because life, you know, the way the machine or whatever you want to call it, you know, particularly over economies and things like that you’re seen as a resource. And so if you feel that your life’s worth less, it’s because the machine treats you as a worthless life as a bank account as a number or something like that. And that’s okay, that’s being alive, that is actually being alive. And that is experiencing things interior its fullest. And the more that I can start to do that, the deeper I can see into the outside world, the deeper I see into myself, and I just see this light infinity sign on its side doing this game deeper and deeper. And, and so now I can begin to handle the whole the contradiction, paradox and complexity of the world. Which again, doesn’t make like doesn’t make living life that easier. Because now what I find is, is that now I’m operate, we’ve gone through quite a gross level, you know, and if I’ve tracked my track my tremors, my actual physical tremors, as they manifest themselves, they went from being very gross level, massive movements, to subtle movements to now very watery. But still, you know, and that doesn’t mean to say that I don’t still have gross movements, and I don’t still have subtle movements, I still do, I still do. And I will do because I am interacting with the world at the same time, that now there’s a presence of some very fine stuff. And so the problem I found for a period of time, and that’s half the reason why I have this conversation is sometimes if I talk from that level, the best analogy I can say sometimes I find myself talking French to, to a Chinese person. And the difference is, is that we’re both actually using English, but I’m coming from one place. And that in itself became essentially challenging for a period of time until I suddenly had to say to myself, well, you need to acknowledge what you’ve done and where you’re at. You know, nobody wants to put tickets on themselves and go more now look at fucking brand, Isn’t he amazing for all this three years of trauma work he’s done. But it just is what it is. And so this is kind of where I operate from. And but I have to recognise that I also have to operate from those previous levels as well, because though, you know, I’m not going to Trevor circles on the beach every morning and talking about tremoring, in coffee shops with everybody, because it’s not that widespread yet. Or this, this awareness of the role of our nervous system in how we do stuff. And so yeah, particularly as we now find ourselves in in, you know, the last two years has been uncertain, has been traumatic, has been a whole existentially challenging, you know, all the, all the things and like the external anchor points that we construct identity of ourselves, which is, again, a key part of our existential strength than the load that we can carry the houses. And many of the external anchor points that we, you know, more onto, have all been moved over the last two years. And so all of a sudden, you know, if you’ve not actually spent time, being aware of your roots in yourself, then when the anchor points from the outside world have moved, all of a sudden, you’re watching the trees flapping around in the wind at the top, and I’m pulling a lot of nature, metaphors all over the place, the tides going out, the tide has gone out. And it’s like, right, well, where are you all at? And, you know, it’s and so I find myself in these places where it’s, it’s not that I’m concerned, not that I’m not concerned about where the world’s going and some of the political decisions that have been made and the drivers that are made behind them. And you know, you know, I still have a reaction to that, but then I move through that reaction, and then I see it within its pattern and what have you, you know, I mean, here in Western Australia, yeah. I’ll be pretty transparent. You know, in November, when the premier pulled out the vaccine mandate. I went into three weeks of existential dismay with the world. I was like, how, however, there were several other things that were going on, which were lesser for me, in my experience of where people can pay attention to actually what was going on. And then all of a sudden Did kapow something happens and everybody’s getting sucked into the drama of this without realising the journey that we’ve been through in time to get to this place. So all of a sudden, everybody’s just dealing with this reality because they’re in this reality. And it’s, you know, it’s a drama so we can deal with the trauma and the drama dramas a really good way to avoid a lot actually going on. And, and say I was suffering from this huge existential dismay, where I’m looking at it go. So we’re mandating vaccines in the workplace. So that means we’re just trying to keep the economy going, versus actual health imperatives. You know, and I might be then conspiratorial or cynical or something, but that was what was coming out. And then, and I just got, and the fact that nobody else could see or even go there, meant that I felt quite alone. And the fact that we were driven into this, you’re either pro vaccine or anti vaccine, and there was no discussion point in the middle that was driving me fucking mental as well, we couldn’t have a nuanced discussion about bit hesitant about this. So yeah, it was all just smashing it. And so I had to go and consult a good friend, Sean Nano, just to create some space for me to get into this. And what we realised was there was trauma in there about being told what to do. And there was trauma around the concept of my own death. And because what was I worried about here, that I might have inject something that was going to physically harm me and my life duller than others. So when you drill that down, that’s all to do with my own death. And that was being told what to do. Everyone’s got a like, big sweeping statement, but I back it up, nearly everybody’s got trover about being told what to do. And then And then the third thing in there was just gracefully accepting my place in the whole pattern of life. That you know, I am one person, I am in among I am one person, but I am also in amongst hundreds and 1000s and millions of others who happen to be here in this place at this time, as we move through our, you know, consciously cultural evolution. And I have to accept where we are as a mass as well. And after that, all of this existential dismay, just sort of left me and I was able to move with more ease and grace in life. You know, what,
what do you what do you call that? Is that existential acceptance? What’s the next word there?
Bryn Edwards [1:17:48]
I think probably, probably, yeah, yeah, it’s understanding where I, you know, that I fit, it’s not overstating my place in the pain
means you have wear and tear.
Bryn Edwards [1:18:02]
So it’s, you know, it’s a lot around my, you know, my nature, place and purpose in life. And so, that, that was hugely beneficial. But again, throughout all of that period, you know, where I’m, I’m seriously just my, I didn’t want I didn’t want to check out of life, there was no suicidal thoughts during that point. But I wanted to check out of, yeah, this, I wanted to go somewhere else, and this and the other, but then you have to come back to you know, what the traumatic realisation is that you can’t, because we’re all in this together. And no man is an island. And, and you know, and throughout all of that, obviously, I was on the tubes I was on the tremor in and I was going through it and all of that time, you know, it’s interesting, you know, was back into some gross movements that then became software that then became pretty simple and fascinating time.
So it’s, it’s, you know, it’s wonderful to hear the journey journey you’re on and what’s just come to me, you know, and just listening to you and you know, you’ve got this green plant plant inside behind you. You know, if people are in the podcast audio, they won’t say that but you know, there’s a beautiful indoor plant there behind you is so, when you when we when you look at a plant, you can tell whether the plant you know, for plants thriving and it’s really alive, you know, it’s it, look, you can see it looks healthy, it looks well it’s growing, it’s doing that when a plants shrivelling, or you know, it’s not nourished, and you can see it’s wilting or it’s it’s really obvious. I mean, everyone everyone knows that. And for me bring, you know, reflecting on listening to your talk and sharing your experience over that time. It’s like and having seen this in my own personal life, but having also watched this and observe this in you know, countless failures other people who keep using this, and this is not me, but other people all around the world. You know, it’s like when I’m listening to you and looking at you today, I just go, Okay, let’s sum up what’s happened in the last few years where I go, you’re more alive. Yeah. I mean, that’s, that’s it, per se, well, what does? What does tremoring help you do or say, or helps you to come more alive? Now you’ve got all those struggles and all those things. But if we look at a plant, we go look the plants a bit healthier, it’s a bit more alive, it’s a bit more. So you know, that’s what I that’s what I see. And hear, but it’s, it’s just really obvious. Like, it’s just, you’re more alive, there’s more life. But as
Bryn Edwards [1:20:37]
anxious even when I’m depressed.
Yeah, it’s not getting out of it. And you know, as I say that, it’s like the magics in the moment, and this mystical, you know, the mystery of the just complete unknown, we’ve got no idea what we’re floating around in bloody space, apparently, it like it’s, it’s just a, it’s so much, so much mystery. And, you know, it’s not just tremoring you’re doing lots of other things and endless other stuff. But you know, as you say, this is this is like one of your golden arrows in your, in your quilt, which again, totally, you know, I relate. And, again, you know, that plant behind you, it’s got an innate impulse to make itself as alive as possible. And the same with us in the human organism. And, you know, in a way we call it tremoring. But really, we’re just doing, let’s just call it lifeforce. We’re finding what you know, people might call it Kundalini, people might call it, the Holy Spirit, all different things in different cultures, but there’s something inside us, which is wanting to, you know, be alive and come alive as freely as we can. And that’s, you know, that’s kind of what, that’s what tremoring does in it, that helps us go into the full catastrophe of life. You know, I know for me recently, one thing that’s really been hitting home, and it’s kind of that existential acceptance in that way is going you know, I’m really aware of my early life experiences my early you know, traumatic experiences, site, more social trauma, not you know, things, but just in my, into my genetic inheritance, my parents inherits all those things of having an effect. And going, you know, what, gee, I feel a bit sad that I’m not more empathic, or compassionate, or I feel a bit sad that I’m not more social, or accurate or helpful, or insightful or effective in my treatment. But what was different was, this just kind of does an acceptance. You know, a few people have been talking about this. So it’s, again, we often come to Terry going, Oh, my God, I’m gonna become enlightened, and then I’ll be happy. And I’m like, well, like, leopard doesn’t necessarily change it spots. You know, there’s, it’s not like, we haven’t kind of tearing, I’m going to get rid of all my childhood trauma, and then I’ll be okay. Versus, I can be okay, now. And I’m on this journey. And by, you know, following it, and using the experiences of life, we start to become more alive. And that, for me, is what I see. You know, it’s wonderful and exciting. You’ve got this deep sense of connecting with a sense of existential, existential safety or trust, you call it, you know, using it. But at the same time, well, great, let’s all just sit around on the couch and say, on trusting, it’s a bit less boring, there’s a sense of a lot, you know, this existential life or aliveness, or, you know, the movement, and it’s not something we have to do, it’s not something we have to kind of make happen, although we’re still involved in it, we make choices, and we do that, but there’s just, it’s like, in the character of life. And, and naturally through that process, you know, you’re more alive. Yeah. 100% It’s really magic.
Bryn Edwards [1:23:44]
Remarkably, more a, you know, a conduit for life. Yeah. Yeah. And I see, I see my place in life, the pattern of life clearer. And now, rather than just being some, you know, because all Ireland lost all by itself. And, yeah, I mean, one of the you mentioned enlightenment, and I wanted, there was a question. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Is this going to be the other day? Is, is Enlightenment a function of the nervous system?
Well, the answer, of course, is yes. A function? Is it correlated with a with an embodied state of Yes. Or in my opinion?
Bryn Edwards [1:24:28]
Yeah. So, you know, often, you know,
what, hang on, can I ran to that? Probably? Probably, yeah. Because I don’t know. I’m not I wouldn’t call myself enlightened. So when I’m enlightened, I’ll let you know. And I’ll say, this is how my nervous system is, and then I’ll be able to give you an accurate answer,
Bryn Edwards [1:24:45]
right when you get the badge. And, yeah, because, you know, traditionally, like, my schemer of the knowledge of the word Enlightenment would come from, you know, Buddhism, which then you know, I have pitches of the Buddha sitting under the tree for X amount of days, I mean, gaining enlightenment, this that the other and so one of the most interesting things, and I’ll put a link to it in this with this podcast is is you talk to the video about high anxiety functioning and what the anxiety Yeah, I post the idea that three stages were the first one is very much you’re, you’re in the environment, you’re doing this stuff but you’re you’re disconnected to your body. And then that always swaps to that place of your soul in your body, you can’t handle the environment, you know, and I was explaining that earlier on with my micro traumas and wanting to set up the mountain and being part. And I think it’s that bit at that point that I think we get dragged into, that’s where enlightenment will come. You know, and, you know, that might not be a widespread understanding for everybody else. But that certainly was for me that, you know, the only way I was gonna get enlightenment was, you know, my job off and going to live on a mountain for six months, or six years or something, and, and just sit there and go on, you know, and do the thing. And now I understand it the journey of how we’ve been so far out in the world, then you have to go so far in into your body. And then just to bring a bit of that ying and yang back to one another. So that I’m in this place now where I actually find certain, well, I find life more interesting, even when there are ups and when there are downs. And we’ve got that, you know that on its side infinity sign of going out into the world and coming back into me and out into the world. And that doesn’t, that doesn’t necessarily mean to say that, you know, sometimes they get out of kilter still, you know, and that sometimes are going to be focused on the outside world. And sometimes I need to go back in here for a while, and I enjoy a bit of just talking the outside world off and stuff like that, and probably a little bit more sensitive to when that needs to occur. And I’ll go in nourish that part. But yeah, so I think that’s what I wanted to ask about is, you know, it’s very blunt question, you know, is enlightenment, the fashion of the nervous system, you know, if I track my journey, and it was interesting, because as I was starting to come out and see more complexity in the world and stuff, and you know, 2020 2020 21, I, I, you know, I’ve created enough space for me to go into, we’re gonna go too far to it now, but, you know, go into my own experience of boarding school and codependency and, you know, if anybody looks at the podcast that I did, particularly in 2020, they were flat out me, there wasn’t just a hypothetical discussion, you know, you got to look at that boarding school one, you know, it’s all my experience, it’s all me, and it’s as transparent as you get, yes, I was fine to do it and go there. Because now I felt I, I had the extra essential, you know, trust and strength, to be able to go into these deeper, darker places of shooting that have occurred, and release that and let it go. And, you know, that boarding school podcast, to this day still is highly watched, I keep getting messages all the time, about that better. So I guess for me, enlightenment is not being the Bodhi Cypher on a on a tree, you know, under a tree or on a mountain or something like that. It’s actually been here in, in, in, in the grind and dirt of being alive. Yeah, so
one of the, so what I’d like to share with you a word that I prefer to enlightenment, I mean, not to discount enlightenment, and that end destination and that sort of, you know, where we all want to be, is the word I, I prefer as enlightened document. Which is why it’s enlightened document.
Bryn Edwards [1:29:10]
So it’s, you know, I remember someone telling me to go to explain and that came out of when I was had this for passion or in my body moving experiences just this sense of going you know what, here I am on part light on you know, part of me is healed part of me is not healed. So, someone said to me this once I can’t remember they said, you know, what does the word guru mean? And if you ask a Westerner often will say, well, a guru is you know, the Indian guru. It’s like someone you follow a teacher, all of those sorts of things. And then I used to always like to say to people, well, okay, what if I told you that the words goo, and roo the word Guru is made up of two Sanskrit words go and root for light and dark? And the answer that people often says, Oh, well, the guru what it means is, it’s someone who takes you from the dark to the light And then I always like to make a joke I say, No, that’s not a guru. That’s a from Guru. So the guru, that concept is the idea of the light and dark at the same time put it in was just like enlightened document, which means part of me is wonderful and loving and kind of blissful. And part of me is, you know, broken and hurtful and mean and, and so again not to discount the destination. But for me, it gives me and this is part of what Trump has got to me is that sense of yeah, we’re calling existential acceptance, or I’m saying enlightened bafflement or in a guru state, there’s that sense of, you know, what it’s like the scales of life part of me is this and part of me is that and I’m heading more in the direction of more light and less dark and all of that, but right here right now,
in order to start moving in that direction, I need to be able to be embodied in both of those things, where most of us try and hide the shadow from so you know, hide the darkness behave a certain way. You know, always remember as a child was brought up in a family was Catholic. And it was all about you know, love Jesus, love this love one another love, love. And I remember saying that on one side, to my mom, when Tara said, but man, what do I do? If I don’t love what I do? I’ve actually hate someone. Yeah, yeah. Well, you just you don’t you just love them. It’s like telling someone to not be scared or not be angry. Just it never made sense. So anyway, so for me, there’s that thing, when I hear people talk about enlightenment, for me eyes kind of go, Well, you know, what? What if we all started aiming for enlightened document, which was to come into the present moment here, and be able to sit here like, you know, the scales of life? Yeah, that reflects us without judging it and saying, Oh, I’m a terrible person, I’m a good person. It’s just like, Yeah, I’m, I’m a product of my history, my parents, my environment, but everything on the product of that I’ve got some good and bad, and I’m, and this is the thing for me that direction that the tremoring. Or I think it’s not even the trim the direction that my body when I let it have its way with me for when I let it be free to move and express the direction it’s moving me towards into more light and less dark to put it in those again, that’s very conceptual, Western lights better than the dark, whereas it could be the other way around. So it’s having that sense of right, well, but here I am. And you know, what, if we could all choose enlightenment, we would. But we can’t, or it seems at this point, we can’t, because otherwise we’d all do it. And so we don’t have an opportunity, apart from to be where we are in the reality of their physiology. And when we see that our physiology is supporting that growth, and that movement towards becoming more alive or more compassionate or more grounded, or more mature and loving, then it’s just a no brainer to say, Great, let’s keep letting the body have that time and that space to, and this is what it does come back to your question about his alignment in the nervous system is for me, because what I what I experienced myself, when I talk about you being more alive, what we’re hearing is more maturity. But it’s not just maturity in our behaviour. It’s maturity in our nervous system, or in our physiology, it’s less reactive, it’s, it’s less, it could be more reactive, but it’s coming more out of defence, you know, it’s more grounded, it’s got more capacity to stay calm and relaxed, or be grounded or see the mystery of both sides, rather than getting in a fight and flight and you versus me. So there’s a physiological maturity. And that, for me is one of the magic things of using this tremor mechanism. Because in utero, our body we’re not there, we’re not thinking about it’s got nothing to do with our cognition, our nervous system is growing itself and getting itself to be more mature and more organised. And when we allow that process to continue outside of the womb, the same thing happens. Our nervous system is growing. Again, this is a shitty word to use, it’s a very limited word, it’s more than our organism, but let’s just use nervous system because that’s what we will talk about that it’s becoming more mature, and its biological or neuro physiological maturity, which then makes it capable for us to have more mature thinking and to have more mature behaviour and have more mature more mature relationships or, you know,
Bryn Edwards [1:34:19]
deal with unknown
to deal with the mystery of
Bryn Edwards [1:34:23]
possibility and probability. And, you know, I’m quite triggered at the moment or resonate around this concept of back to normal safety risk and and maintaining stable systems in the economy is that’s what it seeks to do manager is to say the same Yeah, make things safe for people and stuff like that, but in doing that, you’re not you’re constraining growth of life. And you know, by I, by doing by pursuing, you know, tremoring and other things and paying attention to a nervous system and how it responds, as well as the backlog of stuff that I may not have paid attention to. And, and things like that means that I can be, you know, existentially All right, when I have to sit down and contemplate what else there could be, or better ways of doing things. And and, yeah, you know, I mean, it’s, it’s interesting, you know, he, he talks about, you know, you can we can talk about, you know, does the capitalist system work before us, you know, and often my response to that is, why’d you want to be a communist instead, it’s like, there can be something else, we just need to think about that, and open up the possibility and probability for that to emerge. Now, that might mean, we have to give up a lot of stuff that we’ve got now. Okay, remind me that I might be sad, because I’m going to have to give some shit up and ways of life, but then it might take us to somewhere else. So, you know, with every with every new great thing that comes into my life, there’s going to be a sense of loss. And with a sense of loss, you’re going to have a sense of despair, and unhappiness and sadness, even if it’s fleeting, or it could be for a period of time. And it’s okay to feel despair and dismay and these things with the world because that means that you are in sync with it, and it’s your life. And so you are a conduit for life. So this has been quite a conversation. It’s been fucking awesome as
well, where are we about seven hours? Hello, we
Bryn Edwards [1:36:43]
have something that I mean, yeah, I mean, I think the only other thing I wanted to cover was, there is still a sense of, you probably won’t want to talk to this, there’s still a sense of archive, escape it a sense of sadness, that more don’t pick up a very simple tool, or the tools or just but that force them to pay attention to the role of something that’s going on physiologically in their body. And because, you know, I, obviously anybody’s hung on in this discussion to this point in time, you’ll see what it’s done for one individual and yourself. But then you just like, multiply that by 100,000 10,000 100,000. And then you start going, Wow, that’s awesome. So there’s, there’s still a sense of sadness, that I may be in the pattern of time at this point in time where that’s not there. And I’m still about when there’s more of that about. So, you know, I’m sort of grateful and sad and equal measures, and I’m alright with that. I’m alright with that.
Yeah, totally. It’s like, here we are. You know, I relate to that. And, again, I just through experience, you know, I see that you know, what, watching an individual human body or organism, tremor, and move and shake itself towards vitality and aliveness and let go of stuff and the patents and how I see that happening on that microcosm scale are exactly the same as how I see it on a global scale, you just look at the, you know, the Earth is an organism and you see it spreading. So when we lie down and surrender, and we allow our body to lead us, you know, what this part of the body moves, this other part doesn’t, we’d all love out. Again, we’d love to all be physiologically enlightened. So everything movement is just pure orgasmic bliss, but you know, what the body is just gonna do it in its own way in its own time, now we can help it we can use positions or stop and start or take a break or go and see if facilitated, so we can support that process. But at the end of the day, you know, we and we can force parts of the body to tremor. But it generally doesn’t work and it doesn’t hold or it goes back to where it was anyway, and it creates the whole shitstorm so I suppose what I’m saying, No, these are too hard, you know, that for me. Mine’s more not sadness, my pencils of frustration and just pent up energy of what just like everyone would just fucking get this. Learn if I can just do it, experience it. So you know, get it and people get it like it’s the thing you know, people you’ll see that moment where they go, I get it. I can’t understand it, but I get it. Yeah, just doing something. It’s moving in the right direction. So I suppose yeah, again, I totally relate to that is as all as my nervous system is getting a bit more relaxed and a bit more grounded. I have less of that pent up frustration of wanting to grab everyone you know, shape the the special medical community in the Western world, just to make it happen. And on site rendering in my older age and a bit more, you know, going, I’m still doing as much as I possibly can. But in the same way, when we’re working with the body, it’s not my job to try and make the trimwork go where I think it needs to go. I’m here to kind of be in service and support of it and help it as much as possible. And so again, in the same way that I see, you know, as we keep allowing the body to move, it organically moves itself towards wholeness, or whatever you want to say, you know, I find it easier and easier to go, you know what, it’s okay. It’s okay, where we’re at, it’s heading in the right direction. It’s not up to me. And inadvertently, it actually makes me more effective. And efficient, because I’m not fumbling my fight mode of going, I’ve got to change how things are. Yes, is that there’s that natural surrender and same as facilitating Tre. And, you know, David bacilli always talks about and when he was when he works with people, it’s amazing, because he’s worked with, I don’t know, it might be 30,000 people or more tremoring, like hands on one, just incredible. And he says, Look, I just try and let my organism respond to their organism, not my mind or my ego. And so the more you know, we get out of the way, and we just allow our nervous systems or bodies to resonate in support, the more effective we are. So it’s the same thing with you know, feeling that sadness and being human and allowing that to move and it creates the movement of tears and breath and a bit more depth. And then in the next moment, we’re ready to, you know, take the next opportunity and keep moving forward. So, you know, I have a deep sense in May of
no matter what I can sort of help facilitate or open up or spread or share that eventually, when I die or go on irrelevant, really, I’m almost irrelevant in the whole process. It’s gonna keep going, it’s gonna spread and I love the, you know, I love to take that, again, it’s like in a very traditional Native American practice, you know, look seven generations forwards is you know, I love to be I look in 100 years after I’ve died, what how’s it all gonna look? I got I’ve got no idea. But I know it’s not going to stop. It’s not going to Yes, you know, life is gonna keep going. It’s gonna keep growing and evolving. So you know, even just being able to be comfortable with that starts to go right. Well, here we are. We’re on the we’re on the bloody roller coaster. Let’s try and enjoy it instead of you know, let’s try it, enjoy it, embrace it, and support it and make it make it a vital life experience rather than I’ve got to make it happen. But you know, I get it is it’s, it’s because once you experience that, like, you know, the value, yes, for you. Now, maybe other people, it’s not going to work, I don’t know. But, you know, when people get interested in, you seen enough people to go when they get it and they keep doing it, they go on this journey can be a rocky road. But it can be you know, use the well weather analogy, there’s storms, but there’s also beautiful, blissful days, there’s, you know, perfect waves and stillness, there’s all of those things happen. So, you know, that’s part of what’s motivating us to be sitting here sharing this conversation is hopefully through just our presence and sharing of our journey and our experience of other people’s journey that, that people whose bodies and organisms and spirits are ready to embrace it, you know, just get to take that next step and, you know, dive into it. Awesome.
Bryn Edwards [1:43:21]
Awesome. Well, you know, here in Western Australia, we’ve now got our political precedence of mandating things that are good for you. Who knows? Bridgman has been awesome, thank you very much for helping me navigate this. Because it’s hopefully, anyone who’s hung in this long or realise it’s, it is subtle, isn’t nuanced is different, different and difficult. Hopefully, anybody that likes to start, anybody who’s not encountered tremoring would now get an idea of it’s not just turning up with a course. But it’s a bigger journey in anybody who’s in their tremor journey, who’s trying to make sense of it. Hopefully, there’s things in my journey that help them to, you know, put their arms around what’s actually happening for them, and give them an idea. Probably to legitimise invalid validity, solidify? What’s actually happening for them? Because that is one of the difficult that is this really happening is this light. Because I’m tinkering with the operating system. Am I is this really what’s happening? So yeah, I think with the with the, with the notes for this, I’ll put a I’ll put the link to the high anxiety functioning video. And I’ll also put a link to your introductory course. Yeah, so yeah. And is there anything else you want to add?
Now, I think I think you’re doing great. I’m doing great. We’re doing great. We’ve got A long way to go. So just keep going. You know, I think it’s great. And yeah, hopefully if people feel inspired, then you know, to, to get it, give it a go. And if you’re having any difficulty, go and see someone who can help you make it work for yourself because one of the, probably the, you know, the key thing was one of the key things for me is, you know, theories like a pathway to the theory is not the thing, the thing is that our organism has this impulse for life and we can work out how to help support it and use it. So it’s not a it’s not really a modality, you know, the effect of what’s happening in theory is not tra or the technique, it’s your organism and your body doing it. So it’s an innate process in mammals and humans so if you’re having trouble with it, it’s not because the techniques wrong or bad, you know, or it’s something wrong or it doesn’t work. This isn’t something that’s been made up out of the blue this has evolved in us All for you know, millions of years so if you’re struggling with it, just find a terry provider or you know, who can help you and help you make it work for you. That’s probably the probably the
Bryn Edwards [1:46:04]
and check back in with that provider. Key things for me going back and seeing Fran and talking about it and her watching me and yeah, it’s just the new things
every every time you get your car serviced. Yeah, yeah, it’s good point. A nice reminder. Yeah, just to go and get another set our
Bryn Edwards [1:46:24]
nervous system well, the same type of sticker
let’s see underneath the one Yeah, six kilometres. He said, What is it? Yes, six months or 12,000 kilometres down same gallon, go and do a session that might not be tiring. It could be someone else. But you know, we certainly don’t tend to look after our bodies and ourselves as well as we look after our cars
Bryn Edwards [1:46:45]
and daily rituals. I wish for you tell. Pleasure. Thanks. Bye